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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:09 PM
I'd rather be Flying
davecee's Avatar
Nashville, NC, USA
Joined Mar 1999
2,707 Posts
Erik's mistakes:

He inadvertently showed his weapon.
He didn't leave when asked to do so.
He argued with the store manager.

These actions precipitated the subsequent events. I don't feel that because of these mistakes Erik "deserved" to die, but he did die. You know, just because you may be only exercizng your rights doesn't mean your actions can't be misconstrued by others.

Dave
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:09 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
5,033 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libelle201B View Post
No I'm just trying to figure out "WHY" as you asked me
Because you are seeming to claim some 'justification' is required for someone to exercise their 2nd Amendment Right.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:13 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
5,033 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davecee View Post
Eriks mistakes:

He inadvertently showed his weapon.
Not a crime. Nor is it somehow 'required' for a concealed firearm to remain concealed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davecee
He didn't leave when asked to do so.
Once again, that is not a crime. Nor is it required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davecee
He argued with the store manager.
Once again, that is not a crime. And, it wasn't the store manager.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davecee
These actions precipitated the subsequent events. I don't feel that because of these mistakes Erik "deserved" to die, but he did die. You know, just because you may be only exercizng your rights doesn't mean your actions can't be misconstrued by others.
Those choices by Erik started the overreaction by the store, and subsequently by the cops. That does not make the overreaction his fault. Could it have been averted if he had quietly left? Yes. That does NOT make him responsible in the least bit for the overreaction by others.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:14 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
5,033 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport Flyer View Post
Sure, but that usually doesn't involve raising your voice and cops being called in.
This didn't need to involve ANY of that. There was no justification for calling in the cops as CostCo did, and there was no justification for the 'active shooter' response that the cops presented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SF
The guy who got shot and the police both made choices. The police were cleared of wrongdoing and later honoured for theirs. Scott had a funeral for his. Sometimes freedom ain't free.
This wasn't 'freedom.' This was an overreactive police state.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:23 PM
Hi ya! Car ride!?
Sport Flyer's Avatar
Portage La Prairie, Manitoba Canada
Joined Sep 2003
733 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
This didn't need to involve ANY of that. There was no justification for calling in the cops as CostCo did, and there was no justification for the 'active shooter' response that the cops presented.
But the cops were cleared and later honoured. Obviously the professionals reviewing this case thought the shooting was justified.
Quote:
This wasn't 'freedom.' This was an overreactive police state.
Scott was most definitely exercising his freedom. If he was dead right and the police overreacted that didn't come out in the hearings.
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Last edited by Sport Flyer; Jun 03, 2012 at 03:30 PM. Reason: mistah c
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:25 PM
Registered User
S. FL
Joined Jan 2007
839 Posts
For any LE organization the simple fact that someone, anyone being "armed" causes alarm bells no matter what. Simply because you are a licenced gun carrier doesn't erase the possibility of violence in their minds, nor should it.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:32 PM
Registered User
S. FL
Joined Jan 2007
839 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Because you are seeming to claim some 'justification' is required for someone to exercise their 2nd Amendment Right.
I think it is fair that you answer my questions also.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:32 PM
Now fortified with carbon
DLGjunkyard's Avatar
Canada, ON, Puslinch
Joined Apr 2010
2,688 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Are not members of the organization allowed on the private property?

A business open to the public IS somewhat different than private property that isn't open to the public.
Only until you are asked to leave. Im a member of a country club. Are you suggesting that I cant be asked to leave and forced to do so?
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:34 PM
Registered User
Beaumont ,peoples republic of Kalifornia
Joined Jan 2004
232 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libelle201B View Post
Couldn't the specifics in your argument be used in another nationally known case?
Pfft no argument just a observation
"Blown out of proportion by the loss prevention .= dead law abiding citizen".

Only other case even close was in LA where a Illegal alien was robbed and he falsely reported the perps as armed, one was killed pretty much on sight , and the Illegal is getting charged for the officer involved shootting.

Same should happen here to the loss prevention dude, as he overly stated the threat,directly resulting in this guys death.
Wasnt a school ,wasnt a federal building or any other restricted area ,even if he argued about their policy in a nasty manner,I seen nothing that he brandished or threatened with his lawfully carried firearm.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:35 PM
Figure Nine Champ
madsci_guy's Avatar
North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
1,270 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport Flyer View Post
But the cops were cleared and later honoured.
Sometimes honor means less than it might.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/officer-wit...114978534.html
Quote:
Thomas Mendiola, one of the Las Vegas police officers who shot and killed Erik Scott outside the Summerlin Costco last year, has been charged in a criminal complaint with unlawfully giving a handgun to a two-time felon.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:36 PM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,473 Posts
Whoooooosh
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:40 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
5,033 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport Flyer View Post
But the cops were cleared and later honoured. Obviously the professionals reviewing this case thought the shooting was justified.
That is like saying that the SS reviewed the actions at Aushwietz and found them justified and honoured those in charge for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SF
Scott was most definitely exercising his freedom. If he was dead right and the police overreacted that didn't come out in the hearings.
Correct on all accounts. It didn't come out in the hearings. Much testimony WAS left out and/or refused at the hearing.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:40 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLGjunkyard View Post
Only until you are asked to leave. Im a member of a country club. Are you suggesting that I cant be asked to leave and forced to do so?
Not at all. You must have missed where I addressed it.

Being asked to leave doesn't require an action.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:43 PM
Registered User
S. FL
Joined Jan 2007
839 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
This didn't need to involve ANY of that. There was no justification for calling in the cops as CostCo did, and there was no justification for the 'active shooter' response that the cops presented.

This wasn't 'freedom.' This was an overreactive police state.
There was every reason in the world for CostCo to call in the police if there was an armed individual on their premises causing or being part of a disturbance. Your "police state" comment is quite interesting though.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 03:43 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
5,033 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libelle201B View Post
For any LE organization the simple fact that someone, anyone being "armed" causes alarm bells no matter what. Simply because you are a licenced gun carrier doesn't erase the possibility of violence in their minds, nor should it.
BS.

In fact, where I live, our Sheriff attends our firearms association meetings, by himself, without backup, in a room of about 60 citizens; most of whom are either visibly, or not visibly, armed. NO LE organization should view an otherwise-LAC with 'alarm.' You seem to believe that the firearm, in and of itself, conveys 'dangerous person,' whether that is reasonable or not.
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