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Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:03 PM
Motors beat engines!
Milwaukee Wisconsin, United States
Joined Feb 2001
4,564 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
He has an exposed gun and no badge.... that makes him a threat.

No, that makes it your opinion that he's a threat. Opinions like yours lead to loss of rights. MY opinion is that loss of rights is bad. Feel free to disagree, at least untill someone like you decides 1st amendment rights make you a threat.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:05 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,405 Posts
You wanna carry a gun, keep it hidden.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:08 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
5,038 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
You wanna carry a gun, keep it hidden.
You are getting repetitive. What do you have against firearms? I carry openly in the place I live without running into people like you. Why does it bother you to see citizens openly armed?

It isn't against the law to be armed, nor is it always against the law for a citizen to be openly armed.


If you have a a fear of being shot, worry about the guns you cannot see. The ones you see can be planned for.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:11 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,405 Posts
What makes you think people that carry openly have a permit?
For me, it takes a badge.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:13 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
5,038 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
What makes you think people that carry openly have a permit?
For me, it takes a badge.
What makes you think people that carry openly NEED a permit? For that matter, what makes you think people who carry at all NEED a permit?
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:15 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,405 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
What makes you think people that carry openly NEED a permit? For that matter, what makes you think people who carry at all NEED a permit?
It's the law.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:28 PM
Registered User
Scotland
Joined Sep 2009
66 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
What matters is trespass law of the locality in question.
In Nevada, a person must be told to leave by an agent of the business for trespass law to come in to play.
What? What did an issuing authority have to do with him getting shot?

No, a person who is asked to leave is not required to leave. It doesn't make him less responsible.
Unrealistic to expect the cops to nit pick this in a fast moving situation. I suspect they were told he refused to leave when asked. And it does make him responsible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
No, the overreaction got him killed. There is that chaos theory argument again.
No chaos theory argument at all. He started the chain of events. If he had left the store when asked, then he would be alive. No need for the store clerk to insist. Polite people ask and explain the reason for the request. Responsible people comply.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:32 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
5,038 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
It's the law.
?? Really? Which law in which state?

Vermont has no restriction upon open or concealed carry. Neither do Alaska, Arizona, or Wyoming. In most of the states, open carry is perfectly legal. Why does it seem a 'threat' to you?
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:34 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
5,038 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortato View Post
Unrealistic to expect the cops to nit pick this in a fast moving situation.
"fast-moving situation?" Everyone was walking out of the store calmly, from what I have read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mortato
I suspect they were told he refused to leave when asked. And it does make him responsible. No chaos theory argument at all. He started the chain of events. If he had left the store when asked, then he would be alive. No need for the store clerk to insist. Polite people ask and explain the reason for the request. Responsible people comply.
No, it does not. He is not responsible for the misrepresentation by CostCo, they are.

Compliance isn't required if it is actually a request. Polite people can either politely comply, or politely decline to comply. Otherwise, it wasn't actually a request.

He didn't start the chain of events. The CostCo employee did.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:53 PM
Registered User
Beaumont ,peoples republic of Kalifornia
Joined Jan 2004
265 Posts
One more time ....
The loss prevention dude had issues( according to the article)
The Store manager seemed to not have issues (according to the article)
The loss prevention guy with issues ( like some here) called the police, fanned the flames .
He should have told the truth
" I said jump, the guy said bite me and produced his CCW I said whaaaa get out, he didnt he went over my head with the store manager, this hurt my feelings so I called the police and said the man threatened me with a gun. and he was one of those scary ex military types,"
That about covers this type of mentality.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 11:06 PM
Registered User
Beaumont ,peoples republic of Kalifornia
Joined Jan 2004
265 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Sharp View Post
I would have confronted him.... and ask him why he needed to carry a phallic symbol on his waist exposed to everyone.

phallic symbol ? Is there a cure for hoplophobia.
And exactly why should he tell you ,the reason why he went through all of the redtape to get a CCW ,that you just happened to notice as he bent over to look at merchandise.
Why would you be looking that closely at a man bending over ? I try not judge
Maybe its because he seems to attract more weirdos than normal and the judge thought it was a good idea he carried for his protection.

"lucrative career in real estate" guess that doesnt qualify as one of those professions that warrants carrying a gun , to you . Some see that as a easy victim .
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 01:06 AM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,609 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Or, you are simply making that up for effect.


Responding with 'no thank you, I will finish my shopping first if that is okay' is also appropriate.
Except, of course, there isn't a shred of evidence that was what occurred in this case, since the report is of a heated argument.

Quote:
There are other rational responses other than simply acquiescing to the request.
..and there's the rub.Aquiescence.

An armed rugged individualist with a "you're not the boss of me" attitude comes up against a "wannabe cop". In the absence of the gun the event would most likely have ended with the rugged individualist being escorted from the premises, and he might get someone to write a strongly worded complaint for him.

Put the gun into the equation, add in some armed police and the situation ends up with a rugged individualist adopting room temperature. It could have so easily been avoided if he hadn't been a jerk when asked to leave the store.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 01:30 AM
Registered User
Beaumont ,peoples republic of Kalifornia
Joined Jan 2004
265 Posts
An armed rugged individualist ?
Pfft he was a Realtor with a CCW and had a gun that he was legally permitted to have on his person.
He questioned the mall cop that is the extent of his offence.
Heck I question the real ones when I think they wrong .
But I have never had to explain a legally carried weapon after a mall cop told them a story first.
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 01:35 AM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,609 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by debogus View Post
An armed rugged individualist ?
Pfft he was a Realtor with a CCW and had a gun that he was legally permitted to have on his person.
He questioned the mall cop that is the extent of his offence.
Heck I question the real ones when I think they wrong .
But I have never had to explain a legally carried weapon after a mall cop told them a story first.
To paraphrase Sean Connery in The Untouchables - "Do you think he feels better now, or worse?"
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 01:55 AM
Build/Fly/Crash/Repeat
United States, HI, Kapalua
Joined Jan 2002
1,200 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by debogus View Post
An armed rugged individualist ?
Pfft he was a Realtor with a CCW and had a gun that he was legally permitted to have on his person.
He questioned the mall cop that is the extent of his offence.
Heck I question the real ones when I think they wrong .
But I have never had to explain a legally carried weapon after a mall cop told them a story first.
No, the "extent of his offense" is he didn't comply with the request to leave the premises - something the store is well within their right to request.

Quote:
"lucrative career in real estate" guess that doesnt qualify as one of those professions that warrants carrying a gun , to you . Some see that as a easy victim .
No, it doesn't. I deal with many Real Estate professionals, many women, and not one is fearful of being an "easy victim" or feels compelled to carry a weapon. Nor would they get the permit to do so approved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leccyflyer View Post
To paraphrase Sean Connery in The Untouchables - "Do you think he feels better now, or worse?"
I'm going to take a WAG and say worse, since he's dead.

Something he could have easily avoided.
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Last edited by CoastalFlyer; Jun 04, 2012 at 02:02 AM.
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