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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:12 PM
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madsci_guy's Avatar
North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libelle201B View Post
This thread is progressing into nothing more than a platform for some to suggest that those carrying guns are the real arbitrators of justice.
No one except you, has even mildly suggested that
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:12 PM
Hi ya! Car ride!?
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Portage La Prairie, Manitoba Canada
Joined Sep 2003
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Originally Posted by DLGjunkyard View Post
Dead is dead. Right or wrong, his weapon worked against him.

btw cops overreact because their jobs are becoming a death sentence if they dont.
The opinion that the cops overreacted seems to be held by folks with a very obvious bias and is not supported by the facts. The resultant inquiry absolved them of any wrongdoings and two of the three policemen involved directly with the shooting were later honoured by a national police organization.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:13 PM
All under control, Grommit!
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United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
It isn't a splitting of hairs, nor is it an escape clause. It is the operation of trespass law.

"Ask" is a request. It isn't a requirement to acquiesce to a request. Under trespass law, no crime is broken by failure to leave upon request. And, contrary to what some here think, it is quite possible to be polite, responsible, and not acquiesce to such request.

"Demand" isn't a request. Had the CostCo representative demanded that Erik leave, then at that point, he must leave, or be in violation of trespass law. THAT is the point where the rights of the business owner trump the rights of the person being trespassed, not earlier. In this case, by overstating the 'need' for LE, CostCo violated Erik Scott's rights.
Yep, that'll be the splitting of hairs that I was referring to. If the ultimate victim was asked to leave, as reported in the horribly written article in the OP then his response ought to have been to leave, not to kick off as described.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:14 PM
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S. FL
Joined Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
No, it is accurate to point out that your desired 'need' or 'justification' isn't required.
LOL, I answered your questions, there was no need or justification there either.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:15 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libelle201B View Post
This thread is progressing into nothing more than a platform for some to suggest that those carrying guns are the real arbitrators of justice.
Who is doing that?

It is more that it has throughout been a thread where those who carry guns are told to be 'getting what they deserve' if they get shot by cops.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:16 PM
Registered User
S. FL
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Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
No one except you, has even mildly suggested that
I'm glad I may have been the first.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:17 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by leccyflyer View Post
Yep, that'll be the splitting of hairs that I was referring to. If the ultimate victim was asked to leave, as reported in the horribly written article in the OP then his response ought to have been to leave, not to kick off as described.
How is a failure to leave turned into 'kick off as described?'

Seriously, it isn't 'splitting hairs' to point out that a request isn't a demand. And, given that the manager did seem okay when Erik stated that he was almost done shopping, where is the 'need' to leave, but to somehow presciently avert the unknown overreaction?
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:18 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by Sport Flyer View Post
The opinion that the cops overreacted seems to be held by folks with a very obvious bias and is not supported by the facts
Say what? A person was shot dead for not figuring out which demand to follow? And that is somehow not an overreaction?
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:19 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libelle201B View Post
I'm glad I may have been the first.
Why? Is that what you think?

Do you feel that armed citizens are arbiters of justice?
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:19 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by Libelle201B View Post
LOL, I answered your questions, there was no need or justification there either.
Your view was all about wanting to discover or need 'justification.'
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:19 PM
Now fortified with carbon
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Canada, ON, Cambridge
Joined Apr 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
No, the firearm did nothing. Overreactions drove events.



Their jobs have always been that way. That doesn't justify overreactions.
Do you think that might have something to do with all these gun happy cops?
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:21 PM
Hi ya! Car ride!?
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Portage La Prairie, Manitoba Canada
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Say what? A person was shot dead for not figuring out which demand to follow? And that is somehow not an overreaction?
Which inquiry determined there was an overreaction? Did the police officers involved face discipline for their overreaction?
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:22 PM
Figure Nine Champ
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North Texas
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Sorry the dog biting incident was previous to the shooting.
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Last edited by madsci_guy; Jun 03, 2012 at 06:28 PM.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:24 PM
All under control, Grommit!
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United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,674 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
How is a failure to leave turned into 'kick off as described?'
Read the article in the OP. On being asked to leave by the "wannabe cop" the ultimate victim became engaged in a heated discussion. That is what is described as kicking off.

Quote:
Seriously, it isn't 'splitting hairs' to point out that a request isn't a demand. And, given that the manager did seem okay when Erik stated that he was almost done shopping, where is the 'need' to leave, but to somehow presciently avert the unknown overreaction?
You asked if the ultimate victim was asked to leave the premises. I posted the quote from the article, demonstrating that he was asked to leave.

If you are basing your defence of his contribution to the incident as being without fault on the difference between being asked to leave and being told to leave then it is your choice to do so. The end result is that it sounds like the guy was being a jerk on being asked to leave and chose to argue the toss instead of just leaving. A case of poor judgement on his part.
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:25 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,491 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy View Post
So, exactly why was Erik, shot after the officer's dog bit him?

http://www.lasvegassun.com/photos/ga...--day-2/69010/

http://www.lasvegassun.com/photos/ga...--day-2/69011/ I would think that "honoring" officers that can not even control their dogs is unwarranted.
Sounds more like cop assisted suicide.
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