If this pans out there will be a lot of happy faces

Originally Posted by seagull10

Ooo...ps. I missed your post Richard. Thank you for the information.
Kinkade for sure isn't the best guy on the planet but I hope he has some INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS.
@ Protosemi if you want to produce ornithopters, you are welcome but you have to design your own original bird before that.Otherwise you will look like regular Asian thief .The copy job is very well done and it is probably better than the original but still COPY.

Well Seagull, Yes in the Past i intend to carry SK Bird to Market, also did Email to Sean on future business if i do carry in, But i also face the Same Problem with No date Promise & No reply at all. & i can't face my Buyer after is Pay. The Bird is for Event Flying-In Opening & the Bird came in Very Late, My Buyer is Not Happy & i Can't get my Money back from the Event Until Now. & the Bird just resell to other Flyer of very cheap price. Becos the Material many local flyer don't like it, is very soft. & is very bad Luck the SK Fuselage is break off after few test, the Flyer Return the Bird, & need to Repair it. But after Review SK profile & Feedback from the Forum, i know i can't have the Parts Support From SK with Long Long wait again.

So i Looking for Mr David from R&R Model Aircaft for Advice & Purchase the Plan to Study to Repair. & Re-Design it, Improved the Bird Stronger, all Material & Shape is Different at all. & Is for MY OWN USE ONLY. also from the Supplier.

Well seagull, Ofcos You may still like SK Bird & Sk have it Own Market in western site & also Korea, China , Japan but now all Asia Products are Manufacture by china. But Not this Bird.. As what Bwattie Say this Market is too Small to Production Compare Plane & Heli as my Supplier Say too, & Not even China want to Copy it this kind of Products, & China will ask you do you have MOQ of 10000pcs???So As i say No One will copy it.

But at Personal Point of view for me Sorry i can't just wait with No Date Reply for Month & Year.

So Seagull, If you can 100% Promise Behalf of SK, I will like to Order From You.

Yes I know , Nature( market ) doesn't tolerate empty spaces.
A lot of people have tried here to explain this to Kinkade in many different ways with no success.Your way will probably be the first successful one.
I don't mean to offend you , but can't stop thinking about the best name for your bird and here it is:
"The Park Hawk from Bangkok"
I greatly appreciate your willingness to fair treat the customers .
I can't wish you success because I think your way of doing business isn't properly set from the beginning and i don't accept your explanations as an excuse.

Originally Posted by LSF226

Looks like Protoseni is going into production. This is all I could find by searching:
http://www.daddyhobby.com/forum/show...ithopter/page2

It will be interesting to see if it's real, if it flies well, what the price is, etc.

Richard S

Although this is a copy of Sean's bird but the head looks pretty good though, provided if he's using high grade carbon plate done by precision CNC and good quality sail material with much lower price than SK's, I'd say he may get some business and full fill his desire to get even with SK despite the low ball approach. Perhaps our Flying Pig friend here would like to purchase some and post some pics here to make SK angry

However I am bit confused about his statements he posted not too long ago about his intention is for personal use and among supplier , not sure what that meant since from the link it seemed he has a full production setup with bundled carbon rods and frames in rather large quantities, way more than for "Personal Usage Purpose", more like a commercial approach in my eyes

Protoseni, I am curious to see how original your GLDAB module design or "glide sensor", as you call it , is.

Hi Guy i think this is just a Hobby Forum Only, which many Flyer to join in Becos of
Leaning, Sharing , Building this Hobby is just to have Fun Only. Many RC Flyer is to Share how they Build & also helping other Flyer on the same Interest. & this Why
Many Flyer Come here to have Help Tips for Other.

And for see this Ornithopter Thread is Come like Business Commercial Thread.
And only Talk about Sean & SK Bird....Business & Now Becos of Quarrel Thread on No send the Bird & Can't get back Money from the Seller.....Many Many Post about Sean Business FeedBack.

As Personal of view this Hobby, Is Great Flyer can Build it Own Bird & will not Have this Happen. & Flyer can share & Help other to Build & this call Hobby Fun. & i Like to Help other Too....Anyway this just a Hobby Only.

I like to Clarify that i also Purchase the Good Plan from R&R Kestrel & with Good Advice from David, & David Teach me alot on Build the Bird, where to Order to get Parts & Fabric at the list.

And i like to say is a very Good Plan to Build your Own Bird. Any Can Build it & Share. & Like to Know isit all Flyer Can't Build or Share with Other.. Must Order the Bird from Sean.....So is the King, & What Happen Now.

Ofcos i Not Doing Business Like Sean, & Sean is Doing Business at this Forum.
If Sean is a Good King in this Market, ( The Big Bro ) i Feel Sean Should Support & Share the Help Info to other Guy. Not just Business, & this is Hobby.

Also From Top & End in the Post, i am sharing info, & where did i Say I am Selling The Bird. But If your Like to Build we all can Share Right.

And i also Purchase the R&R Kestrel Plan Too.

So, Production and import? Or are you saying no mass production as the market is too small? I'm lost ?

Also, what's with the "glide sensor" ? I'm interested.

Well Tony Twoskids, *Sensor Glide* Just a Device only. Program by a Board to ESC & stop the Position Only.

But as i feel *seagull10* Sound like is looking down on our Asia site which we can't do it. & is Totally Forgot All the Hobby Products are supply by Our Asia, Just like HobbyKing. & 95% Flyer & World Hobbyshop getting the Parts from our Asia.

And we have All Full Parts Source Supplier around Us. & this kind of Chip set sensor we can easy to get just a door step. & already use for many on our Products many year ago. Our Asia site we Know many many thing......Pls Note : We Not to Sound Out, Not Mean we don't Know or we don't have. The World are So big, & How you Know, we Don't have if you don't Ask.

Well, the rest of us support you and hope you will sell to U.S. customers. Good luck

I don't think anyone here is looking down on Asia site. Coming up with a cloned SK orni is easy but there are lots of engineering behind Sean Kinkade's ornithpoters he made.

You have not yet provided any additional details as to how you came up with your bird through your own engineering, instead, you simply telling us ornithopters are available and how bad SK's business practices are and you had your share of the bad business with this 'Westerner", etc. which are true. And where we can purchase a 'plan" from your source to make our own onis.

I think you took this site a bit too light and more into your possible future business venture here just like Sean Kinkade does. But Sk knows what he's talking about. Okey, your Asia site knows many many things, that's okey, so long as people can learn from. We all know the world is a big world, but please allow me to ask you a simple question that is how much do you understand about designing a wing like Sean Kinkade made on all of his ornithopters ?

I've had some correspondence with Protoseni. He's in Singapore, not Bangkok. He has a "real" business manufacturing exhibition displays for trade shows. His written English is a little rough. I deal with a lot of international business and to me his writing is absolutely clear, but it may not be if you're not used to it. I think we have to wait to see if he goes into production, delivers ornithopters as he says he will, and if they fly well.

Richard S

He wrote clearly from the beginning. Not a problem since SK's orni venture has no patents and anyone can make exact the same thing to the public. But, why not just say it, instead, by bad mouthing about Sk and how he lost his customers, etc. (we all know the risk involved to be a reseller only); how good his future business practices are to be; and by not showing us a brand new designed flapper but almost an exact copy of SK's bird with stronger carbon material.

Despite how bad Sean's business practice is but he came up with all works from his own shop ( the concept).

Originally Posted by Protoseni

Well Tony Twoskids, *Sensor Glide* Just a Device only. Program by a Board to ESC & stop the Position Only.

But as i feel *seagull10* Sound like is looking down on our Asia site which we can't do it. & is Totally Forgot All the Hobby Products are supply by Our Asia, Just like HobbyKing. & 95% Flyer & World Hobbyshop getting the Parts from our Asia.

And we have All Full Parts Source Supplier around Us. & this kind of Chip set sensor we can easy to get just a door step. & already use for many on our Products many year ago. Our Asia site we Know many many thing......Pls Note : We Not to Sound Out, Not Mean we don't Know or we don't have. The World are So big, & How you Know, we Don't have if you don't Ask.

Protoseni, I know well Asians' capabilities and I respect them.Asian students and scientists are one of the best in the US universities so I don't look down on Asia and Asians. But please tell me how I have to look on somebody who buys a product, disassembles it, copies all the parts and begins selling it as his own for profit. Also if you have copied the mechanical part, what I have to think about the electronic micro controller and necessary software. If you pretend to be one of the capable Asians, please design your own first.
If you pretend that your design is original, please post close pictures,algorithm and/or program code and leave us to determine whether it is true or not.
Another question is why you have deleted your "production line" pictures if you are right?.
And at the end one new ORIGINAL name for your ORIGINAL version: "The Singaporean Predator"

Protoseni,
I am very pleased to see the results of your efforts. Please let me know what I have to do to add my name to the list for the Larger 3.2 m ornithopter. I would like to add my name to your waiting list. I knew sooner later Sean would tork off the wrong guy... Larry Jolly

I think you confuse Protoseni & Marcialtech