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Old Jul 22, 2012, 04:04 AM
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United States, AZ, Lake Havasu City
Joined Feb 2010
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Really good that you are coming out with non-tiles plans. It takes much less time and is much more accurate. I will down load them and transfer to ply to make templates for future Pats that I know I will build.

I have all the parts cut out now and maybe start assembly tomorrow. I still need to finish the Tweety Birdy for which I painted the fuse last night but got kinda excited about the Pat because I could have it flying by next weekend with a little effort. I probably will wait for the new motor and ESC to arrive before doing so even though I do have some motors laying around that would do the job.

SpadCat
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Old Jul 22, 2012, 08:29 AM
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Joined Jul 2006
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A week! Wow, that's cooking! Hopefully your motor shows up quick.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 09:22 PM
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Well, it looks like I was being too optimistic. Had the grandkids Sunday all day and night. Plus, I really need to finish the e-Tweety Birdy. Have all the Pat's foam parts cut out, so all I need to do is start the assembly process.

Was hoping to be the first, but looks like that will not happen.

SpadCat
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadCat2000 View Post
Well, it looks like I was being too optimistic. Had the grandkids Sunday all day and night. Plus, I really need to finish the e-Tweety Birdy. Have all the Pat's foam parts cut out, so all I need to do is start the assembly process.

Was hoping to be the first, but looks like that will not happen.

SpadCat
SpadCat,

You still might be the first. At least you were enjoying your family, that's more important than airplanes.
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Old Jul 24, 2012, 03:26 PM
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SpadCat,

You still might be the first. At least you were enjoying your family, that's more important than airplanes.

That's for sure....I have a ball with the grandkids and their dads are my best friends and flying buddies.

SpadCat
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Old Jul 25, 2012, 02:55 PM
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The first post has been updated with the plan changes and the addition of a single page version.

Chris
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 06:54 AM
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I downloaded the new single page PDF and it worked well. Unfortunately, the Staples in town could not print them full size as they do not have a printer large enough. It is still nice to be able to see all the parts on a 8.5x11 page.

I ordered e-retracts tonight. Amazing, they are less then 15 bucks shipped for a PAIR. This is my 4th set. Price them against the E-flights . I am also looking at a trigear set, but not looking forward to messing with the nose gear and all that entails even though it would be nicer for the Pat.

I have posted on the KFm thread asking if I could install a 1/4" spar under the rear edges of the KFm pieces as this would make it possible to completely submerge the retracts in the wing (I need another 5mm). The KFm2 used on the Regal bipe is built this way. I may just do it anyway to see for myself. I suspect it will work fine, maybe lose a little top end speed. I am thinking of bolting the wing on like a balsa ship so that I can easily replace the wing if it does not fly correctly.

SpadCat
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 07:06 AM
Knuckle dragging pilot
Canada, ON, Kitchener
Joined Feb 2001
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Thanks Chris, I downloaded the single sheet PDF as well. Fortunately at work we have a plotter so I was able to print out a set for myself (though I did have to break it into three separate sheets).

I really want to dive into this project right away, but I have a few other planes to get finished up and fixed up before I do. That said, I can't see myself waiting too long, especially since I have a motor and electric retracts coming, that would be a perfect fit for this! lol

Thanks,
Steve
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadCat2000 View Post
I downloaded the new single page PDF and it worked well. Unfortunately, the Staples in town could not print them full size as they do not have a printer large enough. It is still nice to be able to see all the parts on a 8.5x11 page.

I ordered e-retracts tonight. Amazing, they are less then 15 bucks shipped for a PAIR. This is my 4th set. Price them against the E-flights . I am also looking at a trigear set, but not looking forward to messing with the nose gear and all that entails even though it would be nicer for the Pat.

I have posted on the KFm thread asking if I could install a 1/4" spar under the rear edges of the KFm pieces as this would make it possible to completely submerge the retracts in the wing (I need another 5mm). The KFm2 used on the Regal bipe is built this way. I may just do it anyway to see for myself. I suspect it will work fine, maybe lose a little top end speed. I am thinking of bolting the wing on like a balsa ship so that I can easily replace the wing if it does not fly correctly.

SpadCat
SpadCat,

I don't see adding 1/4 spacers to be much of a problem. That would give you an additional 1/2" if you do both top and bottom and a little more lift to boot!.

I also used the bolt on method for wing attachment. It is almost a must, since it's the only way to get to the battery. I added a 1/4" light ply block on top of the fuse doubler's, drilled and tapped. It works great! For the front attachment, I used two pieces of carbon rod.

Looking forward to seeing how your build comes out.

Chris
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadfoot View Post
Thanks Chris, I downloaded the single sheet PDF as well. Fortunately at work we have a plotter so I was able to print out a set for myself (though I did have to break it into three separate sheets).

I really want to dive into this project right away, but I have a few other planes to get finished up and fixed up before I do. That said, I can't see myself waiting too long, especially since I have a motor and electric retracts coming, that would be a perfect fit for this! lol

Thanks,
Steve
Steve,

Must be nice to have access to a large printer. I have always taped my plans since I only have a small little HP printer. A plotter would be a sweet addition to the Jetcaptain plane factory! Might I ask what motor and retracts you are getting?

Chris
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 08:43 PM
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SpadCat,

I don't see adding 1/4 spacers to be much of a problem. That would give you an additional 1/2" if you do both top and bottom and a little more lift to boot!.

I also used the bolt on method for wing attachment. It is almost a must, since it's the only way to get to the battery. I added a 1/4" light ply block on top of the fuse doubler's, drilled and tapped. It works great! For the front attachment, I used two pieces of carbon rod.

Looking forward to seeing how your build comes out.

Chris

Checked in at the KFM thread, and the thought there is 1/2" is not optimal, but then I thought I really don't need that much room, so I think I can use 1/4x1/8 laid flat or even a 1/8 sq. That would give me the room I need and bring it closer to KFM recommended specs. Of course, I could not use these for any load bearing or stiffing of the wing. Other spars will have to be used and will look at the design when I get that far.

I have not had a chanch to look in detail at the plans and was thinking the compartment between F1 and F2 would be used for a Lipo with a bottom hatch, but then I read in your reply about the reason for needing to be able to take wing off was for battery change. I am not too thrilled about that, but I am thinking the reason for it is because of weight and balance. Also, the upside is since there is no Lipo to contend with, I could use a nose gear set up with not too much of a hassle. Like they say...Good comes out of Bad .

Can't wait to get to the point of figuring this stuff out....Lots of fun!!

SpadCat
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 11:25 PM
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United States, AZ, Lake Havasu City
Joined Feb 2010
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Plans Scaling Problem

I was checking the 6mm Depron doublers and two stacked together were not fitting the former's doubler cutouts. The doublers were too thick. I then measured the wingspan and found it was only 46", not 47", so my printer must have shrunk the plans by just over 2%. This is the first time I have not checked this vital statistic after downloading plans, so my Patriarch will a Patriarch jr. 2% will hardly make any difference in flight characteristics, but it did create some more work in that I will have to cut the former doubler slots a little wider.

Jetcaptain, can you think of anything else that I need to be aware of in my build due to this?

I mentioned earlier that I ordered the e-retracts, and then I found a nose gear e-retract for only $15.00 shipped and since I found that the lipo isn't installed between F1 and F2, I almost hit the purchase button, but then decided against it and will stick with the tail dragger version. This will keep the complexity and weight down. Plus tail draggers always work better then tri-gear on rough runways such as ours.

Now gotta go and modify the formers .

SpadCat
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 12:31 AM
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United States, TX, Austin
Joined Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadCat2000 View Post
I was checking the 6mm Depron doublers and two stacked together were not fitting the former's doubler cutouts. The doublers were too thick. I then measured the wingspan and found it was only 46", not 47", so my printer must have shrunk the plans by just over 2%. This is the first time I have not checked this vital statistic after downloading plans, so my Patriarch will a Patriarch jr. 2% will hardly make any difference in flight characteristics, but it did create some more work in that I will have to cut the former doubler slots a little wider.

Jetcaptain, can you think of anything else that I need to be aware of in my build due to this?

I mentioned earlier that I ordered the e-retracts, and then I found a nose gear e-retract for only $15.00 shipped and since I found that the lipo isn't installed between F1 and F2, I almost hit the purchase button, but then decided against it and will stick with the tail dragger version. This will keep the complexity and weight down. Plus tail draggers always work better then tri-gear on rough runways such as ours.

Now gotta go and modify the formers .

SpadCat

SpadCat,

Is the amount you are having to cut out of the former notches 2% as well? If everything is scaled down 2% then the rest of the build should go smooth. You might have to increase the slot size of the horizontal stabilizer though. I will print out the former section on my printer and double check with some depron to make sure it is not a plans problem. Some of the mods I made were to the formers, so it will be a good check non the less.

Sounds like you found a good deal on the nose gear, but I think a tail dragger will be pretty cool too. I am thinking about joining one of the local clubs and might upgrade to landing gear since they have a nice and smooth 500' asphalt runway.

The only way to fix the battery location is to increase the tail moment. Then the battery can be put between F1 and F2. But then you loose your retract space. Maybe one day I will draw up a Patriarch II and incorporate all the good ideas to improve this plane. I know undoing the entire wing is kinda a pain, but changing the battery wasn't too bad. It gives the motor a chance to cool down. Or at least that is what I tell myself....

Let me know if you run into any other problems.

Chris
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 02:28 AM
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Hi Jetcaptain,

No, the notches are 10mm so it they are about 15% narrower as the Depron doubler thickness is 12mm (as you know), so it is not proportional. 2% would hardly be noticeable (12mm x 2%=11.76mm).

OK, I will check the elevator slots and modify as needed. Just out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of one of the formers (F4 for example)?

Taking the wing off is not that big of a deal, so I am not concerned about it. I like your rationalization and I will use it too!

Yes, a smooth runway is nice. My AMA field is real nice, but have not flown there in a number of years. I fly most of the 3D foamies on grass at a high school and my larger planes at an abandoned airstrip.

I don't mind hand launching as I do it all the time with foamie 3D planes, but a plane such as the Patriarch is a lot of fun to do T/Os, landings and touch and goes with.

If you need the link for the e-retracts, just let me know. They really add something special to an plane, especially one like the Patriarch.

SpadCat
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Old Jul 28, 2012, 09:43 AM
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United States, TX, Austin
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SpadCat,

I did a little investigation into the former problem this morning. Somehow the former size notches came out to 10mm just like you said. I will have to go back and change them to 12mm. Not sure what happened there?? Everything else seems to be ok. Thanks for letting me know.

Also a link to the retracts would be great!

Chris
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