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Old Aug 04, 2012, 09:36 PM
Have Fun! Land, Sea or Air
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United States, TX, Austin
Joined Jul 2006
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Sounds like your making some good progress SpadCat. My first plane was a Cox .049 Cessna Skylane. I had never seen anything so beautiful in my life . Of course, I had only been around for 15 years by then.. It had no throttle control and was really too fast to even learn on. It ended up crashing after about three flights, and that was even with help from the guys at the local field. That plane lead me to build a Bud Nosen Trainer which was a great plane to learn on. Never stopped building since. Oh! the memories!

Keep us updated, and a picture or two would be nice as well.
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 10:02 PM
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United States, AZ, Lake Havasu City
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Main Gear e-Retracts

The new main gear e-retracts came in and they are a lot smaller than the ones I have used before (I would have knon this if I had checked the specs). I was thinking I would have to modify the KFM-4 airfoil as I wrote earlier, but this new gear is only 16mm thick, so now I can use the KFM-4 unmodified. Will make the job much easier. The nose gear has not come in yet, so don't know the size. Will check the specs on it later. The advantage of lighter weight is good, but size is not a problem for the nose gear.

Jetcaptain,

That Nosen Trainer would be a great trainer. What did you power it with? I built a Nosen Champ, and it was the most fun kit I ever built. Very large pieces made working on it easy. I used a tired Super Tiger running a reduction drive (forget brand) swinging a 22" or 24" wood prop. Was a great combination and flew very realistically. Ended up selling it before moving, and now wish I had not. Also had on-board glo ignition and I painted it in the same scheme as the full scale Cessna 120 (1799N) that I owned and learned to fly in.

SpadCat
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Last edited by SpadCat2000; Aug 10, 2012 at 01:01 AM. Reason: correct typo
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Old Aug 10, 2012, 12:32 AM
Have Fun! Land, Sea or Air
jetcaptain's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadCat2000 View Post
The new main gear e-retracts came in and they are a lot smaller than the ones I have used before (I would have know this if I had checked the specs). I was thinking I would have to modify the KFM-4 airfoil as I wrote earlier, but this new gear is only 16mm thick, so now I can use the KFM-4 unmodified. Will make the job much easier. The nose gear has not come in yet, so don't know the size. Will check the specs on it later. The advantage of lighter weight is good, but size is not a problem for the nose gear.

Jetcaptain,

That Nosen Trainer would be a great trainer. What did you power it with? I built a Nosen Champ, and it was the most fun kit I ever built. Very large pieces made working on it easy. I used a tired Super Tiger running a reduction drive (forget brand) swinging a 22" or 24" wood prop. Was a great combination and flew very realistically. Ended up selling it before moving, and now wish I had not. Also had on-board glo ignition and I painted it in the same scheme as the full scale Cessna 120 (1799N) that I owned and learned to fly in.

SpadCat
Can't wait to see how that gear turns out. Not having to modify the wing will save you some build time.

The Nosen I had was .40 size. 60" wingspan. Rudder and elevator only. And lots of dihedral. It was powered by a O.S. 40 FP. swinging a 10x6 prop. I guess Bud Nosen made a larger version and this was called the "Trainer" They must of called mine something different. Can't remember the exact name, but I do remember the countless hours in my garage gluing balsa sticks together.
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Old Aug 10, 2012, 12:55 AM
Radian, Polaris, Mistaken ID.
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Japan (Military)
Joined Nov 2010
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Great looking Foamy! Possibly my next build! Thank you for posting plans!
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Old Aug 10, 2012, 01:15 AM
Have Fun! Land, Sea or Air
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Your welcome to the plans Baseman.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 10:44 PM
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United States, AZ, Lake Havasu City
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Hopefully will put some time into the Pat this weekend. The servos I need came in and I also ordered a nice motor mount. I usually make the mount, but this time I will use a manufactured unit. The nose gear retracts have not arrived yet.

I have not decided if I will use the WOW system for the fuse/tail feathers or just paint. I was not thrilled with the system when I tried it on my e-Super Pacer and sanded it all off, but that was probably because I needed more experience applying it. At 25 bucks for 8 ounces, don't want to waste it.

SpadCat
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Trouble with Trigear

Woke up last night thinking that there may be problems with locating the main gear in the wing due to CG and after getting the wing out and checking where it is located, found it way too aft for the gear to be mounted in it. Probably the reason most radically swept wing planes have to go to fuse mounted mains. The vintage sweep wing pattern planes I have built had no problems with this due to the relatively shallow sweep.

Anyway, back to the simpler taildragger version.

Jetcaptain, let me know if I am wrong about this.

Thanks,

SpadCat
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 09:24 PM
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United States, TX, Austin
Joined Jul 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadCat2000 View Post
Hopefully will put some time into the Pat this weekend. The servos I need came in and I also ordered a nice motor mount. I usually make the mount, but this time I will use a manufactured unit. The nose gear retracts have not arrived yet.

I have not decided if I will use the WOW system for the fuse/tail feathers or just paint. I was not thrilled with the system when I tried it on my e-Super Pacer and sanded it all off, but that was probably because I needed more experience applying it. At 25 bucks for 8 ounces, don't want to waste it.

SpadCat
Spadcat, I've been racking my brain for the last 5 minutes trying to figure out what WOW system is? Can you give me a another hint?
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 09:27 PM
Have Fun! Land, Sea or Air
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United States, TX, Austin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadCat2000 View Post
Woke up last night thinking that there may be problems with locating the main gear in the wing due to CG and after getting the wing out and checking where it is located, found it way too aft for the gear to be mounted in it. Probably the reason most radically swept wing planes have to go to fuse mounted mains. The vintage sweep wing pattern planes I have built had no problems with this due to the relatively shallow sweep.

Anyway, back to the simpler taildragger version.

Jetcaptain, let me know if I am wrong about this.

Thanks,

SpadCat
Let me think about this a bit. What are the individual weights of the 3 gear? And also the weight of the battery?
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetcaptain View Post
Spadcat, I've been racking my brain for the last 5 minutes trying to figure out what WOW system is? Can you give me a another hint?
It is a light weight foam finishing system and I think it is the same as Styro Spray 1000 by Industrial Polymers.

Here is the URL: http://www.wowplanes.com/Final_Finish.htm

SpadCat
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jetcaptain View Post
Let me think about this a bit. What are the individual weights of the 3 gear? And also the weight of the battery?

Actually, I am not concerned with the gear affecting design CG...I will just add weight fore or aft as necessary to balance. My perceived problem is with the CG 7+ inches from the leading edge, and the main gear on a tri-gear must be aft of the CG. This location places the mains to the rear of the KFM airfoil of the wing. Now there is only 6mm of Depron work with in that area. The tail dragger main would be forward of the CG and can be placed in the KFM, even though that is still not the ideal location as it is further forward of CG than is ideal. Still should work...but the take off rotation may not be as smooth as it could be. But, this is a light weight foamie and with the power to weight ratio and low wing loading it has, it will not need a long take off roll and should just jump into the air. Landing should be easy with just pulling up and adding a burst of power and let it float down. I do this all the time with the Polaris 120, which is not a 3D ship, and the Regal Bipe, which is.

SpadCat
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Old Aug 20, 2012, 10:10 PM
Have Fun! Land, Sea or Air
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United States, TX, Austin
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I understand your dilemma. It looks like conventional gear or fixed tri-gear would be the easiest based on the KFM4 airfoil. Maybe next time you can try a full symmetrical airfoil. If you would like, you could increase the KFM4 to 50% chord, and that should allow you to put the gear back a little more. Currenlty, as drawn, it is at 40% chord.
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Old Aug 21, 2012, 08:27 PM
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I am already treating this build more like a balsa ship than a foamie...I have spent more time sanding and filling the fuse then I have in actual building so far, so I need to not try to get it to the finish level of a balsa ship. This design is so cool, but I need to just back off and not be so picky with it.

50% still will not be back far enough, but that is ok. If I want tri-gear, I will just need to build a built up wing and I am not going to do that with this build. Also, I will not be able to put the time into it again for a while. Can't finish fuse until motor mount comes in.

What procedure did you use for finishing?

Thanks,

SpadCat
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 09:39 AM
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Spadcat,

I just use light weight spackling mixed with water. For paint, it was white latex thinned with windshield washer fluid. For sanding, I used coarse, med, and then fine paper. It's not perfect, but it came out pretty nice. But before I sanded, I trimmed off the extra with a razor first. If not, you will be sanding a long, long, time!
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Old Aug 22, 2012, 01:39 PM
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Spadcat,

I just use light weight spackling mixed with water. For paint, it was white latex thinned with windshield washer fluid. For sanding, I used coarse, med, and then fine paper. It's not perfect, but it came out pretty nice. But before I sanded, I trimmed off the extra with a razor first. If not, you will be sanding a long, long, time!
"sanding a long, long, time!" That is exactly what I have been doing . One of the reason I build more foamies now than balsa planes is the low finishing times, but at this point I have nearly as much time into the Pat fuse as I do with balsa ships at this stage. I have always loved building balsa planes, but hated finishing, even though I have always tried to do a decent job. Attached is a pic of two recently built ships, one balsa and the other a foamie. I spent hours on the finish of the balsa ship, and less then 15 minutes on the foamie.

SpadCat
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