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Old May 30, 2012, 10:26 AM
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AmbienceFlyer's Avatar
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How to recover from a tip stall?

I've been flying a Hobbyzone Champ for a few months now and I think I've mastered everything I need to know. I plan on buying a warbird soon since I've heard that they're good step-up planes, but I've played a lot of flight simulators (real airplanes, not RC ones) during my free time and I've found that warbirds and similar planes tend to tip stall easily. In my simulators I apply aileron and rudder in the direction opposite of the spin, but half of the time I start spinning the other way instead of recovering. If my model warbird tip stalls, how do I recover from it? Is it any different from recovering a real airplane like the ones in my sims?
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Old May 30, 2012, 10:47 AM
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It's probably not the correct way to do it but, I've several planes that if they tip stall they go into the descending spin and if I just leave the controls alone the planes will eventually regain flying speed and recover on their own. That is of course if they have enough altitude.
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Old May 30, 2012, 11:26 AM
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dedStik's Avatar
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I've been doing research on this today as I've had 2 devastating crashes that I did believe weren't stalls, but the symptoms do point to stalls.

Turning and loss of altitude followed by immediate loss of elevator control, all other controls seems responsive plane is unable to recover from the stall.

Apply some throttle to increase airspeed.
To stop rolling if ailerons are present, apply opposite aileron to level wings if unresponsive apply opposite rudder to level wings.
Once wings level, apply down elevator to relieve wing load, once wing load has been relieved apply up elevator to recover.

I've mainly been reading up on this today, that is the textbook pilots stall recovery in a nutshell. Should work for rc as well.

With mine I never tried down elevator to relieve wing load, only up which remained unresponsive until ground contact was made. It never occurred to me to try down elevator, I had actually thought I had a mechanical failure of some sort.

Some reading.

http://www.mountainflying.com/Pages/...revisited.html

http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/...ing/stalls.htm

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...B3Sh-9AOTflflw

If I'm totally off on this, please someone correct me as to the proper procedure.
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Old May 30, 2012, 11:58 AM
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You've got the procedure basically right, but a bit too complex to remember in an emergency. I've crashed a couple of times due to tip stalls and it's always in the landing pattern, when there's little altitude to recover, so a simple, mentally quick procedure works best. It's probably best not to worry about roll, but just focus on a couple of things:
1. Center all the controls and especially quit pulling up elevator! This alone will allow a lot of planes to recover.
2. Smoothly apply down elevator and throttle as needed until the plane responds.
3. Pull up elevator to recover.

If you have time to think, apply opposite rudder at the same time as the down elevator and throttle.
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Old May 30, 2012, 12:01 PM
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Opposite ail. is not a good thing. If the left wing stalls, and you give right ail, the left wing will stall even more with the drag of the ail. Right rudder might help but you'd have get off it real quick. Best thing is to get the nose down and the speed up. Have to be carefull with the throttle too as quick throttle opening at close to the stall will torque turn to the left.

Gord.
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Old May 30, 2012, 12:13 PM
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Both of mine happened at over 200 feet alt, which I had assumed to be high enough to recover, but due to my inexperience I was yanking in vane up elevator, which I found out is incorrect as the surface becomes useless.

Thanks for the input guys, I've not been wanting to rebuild the plane as I thought it would be a waste of time, but I see it was pilot error that led to it's demise, knowing this and what to do to try to recover the plane, I'll surely rebuild it.
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Old May 30, 2012, 01:07 PM
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First of all, forget 'tip stall' because the main wing stalled not just the tips.

I simply release all controls for a second, apply a tad of power with down elev then up elev. Then whatever aileron input to stop the rotation. I have 13 planes and for the life of me I can't get any of them to get into a death spiral... using this method they all recover...

Be sure that you don't stall down low!!! When low be very aware of your nose attitude ESPECIALLY through a turn...

Learn to fly gliders/sailplanes... They teach you better than any other platform all about energy management...and how attitude, the plane's not yours', effects flight...
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Old May 30, 2012, 01:16 PM
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I did learn on a glider granted was 20 some years ago. I've yet to stall below 200 feet, and yet to recover from those stalls, I keep forgetting to increase power and down elevator before yanking up on it.
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Old May 30, 2012, 02:58 PM
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Powered planes
Cut power, let it tip nose down.
Apply full power, dont toucht rudder or ailerons.
Gain some air speed, then reassume control(use ailreons and/or rudder)
done

gliders
Apply full down elevator,
wait.
wait.
wait.
nose tips down gently
wait.
wait.
airspeed picks up
wait.
wait.
wait some more.
apply up elevator until in a (atleast 5 degree down angle, 10 more is better)
try if relative airspeed if sufficient by trying the controls.
If it is responsive ur "done",
Else apply down elevator and wait a little longer(more air speed needed) before assuming control
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Old May 30, 2012, 05:48 PM
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The worst thing to do after the plane stalls is to pull up elevator all that will do is guarantee you won't recover. It's a hard habit to over come in the given situation as your plane is heading towards the ground and the natural thing to do is give it up elevator. I've lost several planes by making the mistake of giving it up elevator after a tip stall and not knowing that wasn't the right thing to do. Although I try to avoid getting my plane into a tip stall situation, I haven't lost any more planes because of a tip stall now that I know to leave the elevator alone until the plane has regained flying speed.
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Old May 30, 2012, 06:37 PM
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Thanks for the info, everyone. Sorry to hear about the lost planes - I'll try to remember to avoid adding up elevator too soon.
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Old May 30, 2012, 06:47 PM
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rtbates - THANK YOU!

"First of all, forget 'tip stall' because the main wing stalled not just the tips."

I tire of that phrase. A stall is a stall, period. I think folks use that because of the "washout" thing. Twisting the tip of a wing to force the root to stall 1st. Anyway, low, slow, and turning is a good recipe for a stall. Keep power and speed up a bit.

Don
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Old May 30, 2012, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkrhardy View Post
rtbates - THANK YOU!

"First of all, forget 'tip stall' because the main wing stalled not just the tips."

I tire of that phrase. A stall is a stall, period. I think folks use that because of the "washout" thing. Twisting the tip of a wing to force the root to stall 1st. Anyway, low, slow, and turning is a good recipe for a stall. Keep power and speed up a bit.

Don
The Navy, amongst others, just might disagree with you there Don. I suggest you give the following a read, it's from a Navy Flight Manual.

http://navyflightmanuals.tpub.com/P-1231/P-12310054.htm
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Old May 31, 2012, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flypaper 2 View Post
Opposite ail. is not a good thing. If the left wing stalls, and you give right ail, the left wing will stall even more with the drag of the ail. Right rudder might help but you'd have get off it real quick. Best thing is to get the nose down and the speed up. Have to be carefull with the throttle too as quick throttle opening at close to the stall will torque turn to the left.

Gord.
+1 If you go to the link dedstik provided, and scroll down to the 'stall recovery' section, .. it says, no ailerons, period.
http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/...ing/stalls.htm

I like this site, lots of good instruction.

I don't claim to know the correct way but the method described here works very well in Real Flight 5.5 and MS Flight Simulator ... lots of conflicting info tho, so it's easy to understand why some think differently.

Challenge for all with sims, try kicking opposite rudder, to the dropping wing, after you go nose down and gain a little speed.
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Last edited by immelguy; May 31, 2012 at 12:33 AM.
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Old May 31, 2012, 10:00 AM
DO A BARREL ROLL!
AmbienceFlyer's Avatar
Joined Feb 2012
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I have another question, if you all wouldn't mind. Would a nose-heavy airplane be easier to recover from a stall than a "normally" balanced for tail-heavy one? My logic is that a nose-heavy airplane will naturally want to point itself at the ground during a spin, making it easier to reduce the AoA and get air flowing over the wings normally again, allowing you to pull out of the stall (gently of course).

*EDIT* By the way, thanks for the responses. You've all been very helpful. ^^
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Last edited by AmbienceFlyer; May 31, 2012 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Forgot to say thank-you. ^^
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