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Old Oct 26, 2012, 01:44 PM
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What is the main shaft of the Helios made of? Titanium? I opted for drilling a second hole where the gear is located, a little higher than the current one, so the gear would sit a fraction higher on the shaft, thus reducing the almost 1 mm play I had on the main shaft. Despite using a new drill, I was only able to make a small pit in the shaft, not drill through and through. The pit is deep enough for the screw in the gear to get a "lock" so it works, but I was not expecting it would take so much effort to make a tiny hole.

It was worth it though, with the reduced play the heli handles much less "rocky" when touching the cyclic. I hope to be able to test outside soon if it also helps with the handling there.

Btw, mine has a good punch on the throttle, so I don't see the need for a stronger motor. What might cause the heli to descend when "mocking" about could be the swash binding with the main shaft, as the servos have almost insane throws on "CH2" mode, or full rates. A stronger motor will not really help then.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 06:28 PM
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Out of everything ,with mine, I'd say a more powerful motor is the last thing I would upgrade, the stock has plenty of power.



Edit, I may actually try and fit my md500 fuse to this heli
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 11:17 PM
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Today took V911/ Solo-pro 270A/ Helios 100 S/P 260A to compare just for fun. All fly fine and are different. S/P 270A smooth easy flyer pretty mellow but nice flyer. V911 steady just little jumpy on throddle, but no issue. Helios very smooth but tail is quick. 270a comes with nicest TX the J4. J4 works well and quality seems better than the rest. Last to fly was hot-rod 260A. Funky oval TX does work well and even on low rates 260A like to rocket around. Its stable but very quick. I had a good time with them all and they make it to fly again. Every one is stock with no Frankencopter mods. The S/P 260A will smoke them all in performance hands down. It is a little smaller and lighter than the rest and it moves out. New flyers to 4ch F/P be warned 260A is fast and very agile. Helios has very quick rudder. V911 is great place to go and 270A is mild but more expensive than the rest, but has nicer TX. V911 is only one T9X compatible. Soon there is a newer version of T9X coming out. Also a newer 6ch rig that looks nice ??
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 05:28 AM
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I think your comparison is quite spot on. Though the Helios is somewhat smooth, but the touchy rudder does make it a little harder to fly, the rocking/porpoising makes it appear less smooth, and on mine at least, the throttle is also a little jumpy, it's hard to find a setting where the heli will keep steady altitude. The 270 is very smooth. And with a minor mod, replacing the receiver for the 260's version, will be much less "mellow". It's a shame the 270 is still quite expensive for it's class, and replacement parts are not the quality you would expect for the price. If not, it would have been the best entry level heli, as it's so smooth, even close to the ground, when in ground-effect, making landings and take offs, the things beginners struggle most with, much easier.


Btw, does the Helios package come with 2 spare links, or just one? I got with mine a spare tail blade, screw driver, 2 spare main blades, and one link.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 05:33 AM
KDS450QS(ZYX4),V977,CX-20
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The rocking issue can be mitigated by mastering the elevator control. I don't really know how to explain but I am able to reduce the amount of rocking / see-saw effect by getting used to the rate of release of the forward elevator. If the forward elevator is reduced too fast, Helios will jerk backwards, then forward.... The trick is to reduce elevator gradually. Plan your flight path well ahead.

This makes Helios 100 challenging, which I like a lot. If I want an easy heli to fly, I'll pick the V911. It gets boring after a while. But there'll be times I feel the need to challenge myself and out goes the Helios!
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 06:22 AM
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Same would apply to the 9958, with some practice you can get around some of it's handling traits, but also not fully reduce them. There is a fine line between challenge and ease of use. No doubt a car that wants to constantly go left is a challenge to keep on the right track, but is it fun for everyone?

Some will find the Helios more interesting due to that, others will see it as a flaw. And both are right, I think.

Btw, I get the impression the rocking got less when I reduced the play on the main shaft, so perhaps there is hope.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 06:40 AM
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Bad flight characteristics are not challenging they are annoying lol , the porpoising/rocking should not be present at all and the throttle ratio is just plain bad , its like we've/they've taken two steps back , eg the twitchy tail /old v911.

Certain characteristics are acceptable of course such as flying in wind as these are small micro helis with relatively low power, but , forward flight should not result in some of the behaviour that occurs.


( yes i am moaning lol nothing ever changes if we dont complain and theres no point complaining to the retailer as they dont manufacture the heli )


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Old Oct 27, 2012, 07:00 AM
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Just completed a first full flight indoor, after fixing the play on the main shaft and perfectioning trim for good hands free hover. Rocking was indeed much less present. I was able to do smooth circuits at several different speeds, including quite slow. The heli was easy to move around and was very "point and shoot" now. Landings also went fine, not as solid as the 270, but managable. Take offs are a bit rough, the little "bumps" under the left skid don't seem to give it enough sideways angle to assure straight take off.

The throttle curve could be better, even with some practice it's hard to keep the heli at steady altitude. The tail is twitchy, although not as bad as the first version Trex100, so it might partially solved by some getting used to. I like that the TX has voltage indicator for the battery, buy why no numbers for the throttle percentage instead of that graphic indicator, which is much harder to judge? I know I won't be constantly looking at it, but throttle percentage can help with judging a fading main motor, or bad battery. This throttle "gauge" helps little there.

So far I don't regret getting one, I hope to be able to test it outside again soon, now that it's well trimmed, and with zero play on the main shaft.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 07:43 AM
KDS450QS(ZYX4),V977,CX-20
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Subjectivity

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloProFan View Post
There is a fine line between challenge and ease of use. No doubt a car that wants to constantly go left is a challenge to keep on the right track, but is it fun for everyone?
What's "good", "bad" or "challenging"? How does one ever quantify and determine that universally? There is no way. What is challenging for me may not be for you. I have friends who find 3-channel coaxials a challenge while I could fly them with one hand. I also have friends who can master coaxes but mess up badly with a dead-simple V911; apparently the aileron controls are a bit too much for them to handle.

I can do wonders with my V911 and Helios 100. I can do figure-8s and funnels anytime I like. Yet, I can't handle my FBL Solo Pro 180 and my KDS 450QS. It is definitely not fun to be crashing most of the time. Based on my "wealth" of experience with many helicopters, I could slam the two "overly challenging" helicopters as junk. But then again, I've seen folks doing tic-tocs with them. They seem to be having so much fun while I sulk in agony.

For the record, it is wrong to use the car veering left analogy here. It's more like the car jerks badly during manual gear shifts, because the driver is not able to manage manual transmissions properly. Try putting a new driver in a Ferrari or Lambo; do you think he can shift into gear 1 and move off properly?

It's hard to find the right analogy. Car analogies usually make the issue more complicated.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 08:14 AM
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Quantification ( real word ? lol ) is personal and judged on your own personal experience and skill level and all should be accepted as correct ( to a point of course)

The car analogy is wrong as what the example points to as a lack of experience on the drivers part , the correct analogy would be that during driving the car accelerates randomly ( the purpoising effect for sake of argument ) or randomly accelerates or slows down or its back end slips during turning , if any of those happened on a new car you would return it to the dealership , if those same problems occured on multiple models the manufacturer would force a recall of the problematic model.

"WE" have multiple problems across the same model , the twitchy tail is an issue and whoever flew this previously before accepting the model for manufacture should be sacked.

The porpoising and some of the other issues 'may' be hardware related and fixable by the end user but realistically why should they ? these issues should have been sorted at the source , for sake of argument i think James had these models and issues were supposed to be resolved before manufacture , they obviously werent.

Putting it into perspective , my personal experience is 6ch helis and downwards along with planes and quads , now i have on my Helios some seriously pathetic issues that you would expect to find 5 years ago on the budget helis , today we have moved forwards and should not accept these type of issues especially after mass production has started.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 12:04 PM
Did you check the FAQ already?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FyreSG View Post
What's "good", "bad" or "challenging"? How does one ever quantify and determine that universally? There is no way. What is challenging for me may not be for you. I have friends who find 3-channel coaxials a challenge while I could fly them with one hand. I also have friends who can master coaxes but mess up badly with a dead-simple V911; apparently the aileron controls are a bit too much for them to handle.
I agree that there is no universal way to determine if something is a flaw or something that you need to work around. That is why I added this line after the part you quoted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloProFan View Post

Some will find the Helios more interesting due to that, others will see it as a flaw. And both are right, I think.

Comparing the Helios to a Lambo or Ferrari is giving it too much credit. These are high performance cars, that require proper training before someone can get behind the wheel with confidence. I would consider at least a 6 channel when talking about a"Ferrari-class". The Helios is considered much more entry level with it's 45 degree flybar design. It doesn't porpoise because of bad stick movements or a bad pilot. It's because the heli responds different to stick movements than most helis in the same class. You can adjust to that, no doubt, but you have to understand no everyone is willing to adjust to something that is not present in most similar helis on the market.


Btw, I still haven't heard an answer to my question if people that are having much porpoising have checked the play on the main shaft. I might be a link in the chain amplifying the effect. As I stated before, I get the impression my Helios responds much smoother after reducing the about 1 mm play, and as a result is now much easier to fly, at least inside, as I don't have to work around any rocking any more. It just follows my commands.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 12:10 PM
Sir Crashalot
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Both my Helios have about 1 mm play on main shaft. The rocking doesn't bother enough for me to try to drill thru titanium.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 12:46 PM
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1mm play here too

but

Same amount of play on my v911 and no porpoising
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonecutter View Post
Both my Helios have about 1 mm play on main shaft. The rocking doesn't bother enough for me to try to drill thru titanium.
Could also be stainless steel, also hard to get into. But a washer will do the trick just as well. I just didn't want to add any weight to an I understand already quite heavy heli. But considering the power the main motor has on mine, it would have laughed at the added "weight" of a washer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scousethief View Post
1mm play here too

but

Same amount of play on my v911 and no porpoising
The V911 has more stabilizing, due to a different flybar design. I would still suggest reducing the play on your Helios, and see if you get similar benefits in handling as on mine. It made mine climb up from just a fraction above Trex100s (first version) and still below the 9958 level to being almost on the same level of enjoyment as my Bravo SX, so clearly above the 9958. 1 mm of play can give unwanted cyclic input, like the sliding right when you give just forward elevator, and also adds a slight dead zone around midstick.

My current ranking:

#1 Solo Pro 260 or 270 (can't decide which one, the 260 screams outside in both speed and agility, the 270 is so smooth and is much better inside although it can handle a breeze better than the 260)

#2 Bravo SX, with it's great looks and decent speed. Short flight times and being noisier cost it some points, which explains second place

#3 Helios 100. Has to prove itself outside, but first results, after reducing play on main shaft, look promising

#4 9958. Lovely heli to make "roller coaster passes" outside. Inside it boasts good handling on landing and take off, only surpassed by the 270, but it's less direct, and lacks throw.

#5 Trex100s (first version). Almost impossible to get rid of TBE, tail hold is weak, and very fragile canopy. Very smooth sounding though, and well built. But only the second version (100x) seems to be worthy of the Align pedigree. 100s is best left as shelf queen, or converted to x-spec.
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 02:28 PM
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Tried a small collared washer that i found in my spares box , still the same issue.

I dont think that the issue is mechanical i am starting to think that most of the problems are power related ie bad power management between motor and servos, only one real way to find out and that is swap the board with one from one of my v911's and see what happens, that will have to wait for now though.
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