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Old May 28, 2012, 08:20 PM
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Andrew Smith's Avatar
Nova Scotia, Canada
Joined Jul 2007
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3m res/ref choices

Hey guys
I'm thinking about going up a size for a new glider. I currently have a 2.5 m full house Topmodel Prelude( love it), but think I would like to have a 3m res or ref. Looked at an Oly 3 or a Mirage
Any comments/ suggestions?

Andrew
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Old May 28, 2012, 09:01 PM
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hog2soar's Avatar
Central California
Joined Jan 2010
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If you like building,you can't go wrong with any of Sky Bench's kits.

I have a Oly III I built last winter. I absolutely love it. At the very last minute I cut it's nose off and added a motor,so I wouldn't have to mess with a winch seeing how I fly most of the time by myself. But pure or electric it's a great plane. It's only problem is it doesn't want to come down.

Eddie
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Old May 28, 2012, 10:39 PM
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United States, MA, Waltham
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If you're ambitious enough, a well built Bubble Dancer is a great flyer! Plans at charlesriverrc.org
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Old May 29, 2012, 01:33 AM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
Joined Aug 2007
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Im building a Bubble dancer now. You really really really need to be ambitious

I have an e-powered Mirage and Ive flown Oly's. Both are great sailplanes and easy building, great kits, but my vote goes to the Mirage.

Mine came in at 33 oz with electric power - the same as the pure glider weight. You will never get an Oly close to that weight.

It floats like nothing else, turns on a dime and still handles far more wind than I would ever want to fly in.

Thats my vote
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Old May 29, 2012, 07:23 AM
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United States, MT
Joined Mar 2008
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Oly III built full house is a fantastic sailplane... Another vote for Skybench, great kits.
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Old May 29, 2012, 08:06 AM
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Thermaler's Avatar
Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrE View Post
Mine came in at 33 oz with electric power - the same as the pure glider weight. You will never get an Oly close to that weight.
Thats my vote
Apples and oranges. The Oly III has 19.5" more span, 151 more squares more and a MUCH better airfoil.

The Skybench Oly III gets my vote if you are looking for RES/REF.

Joe
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Old May 29, 2012, 08:27 AM
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Ireland, County Kerry, Kerry
Joined Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by IHAVAWDY View Post
Oly III built full house is a fantastic sailplane... Another vote for Skybench, great kits.
Lovely looker that!
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Old May 29, 2012, 08:36 AM
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Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermaler View Post
Apples and oranges. The Oly III has 19.5" more span, 151 more squares more and a MUCH better airfoil.

The Skybench Oly III gets my vote if you are looking for RES/REF.

Joe
Not to take anything away from the Oly III, which I think is a very, very good plane, but having built 3 Bubble Dancers over time, you are a bit mis-informed as to the numbers -- and maybe their performance implications.

The Bubble Dancer as normally built (one extra bay on each tip) spans123 inches and has 1044 sq. inches of area (compared to 132 and 1066) for the Oly III. A 59 ounce Oly III has a wing loading of about 8 oz. per square foot and a 33 ounce Bubble Dancer has a wing loading of about 4.5 oz per square foot.

As to the Oly III airfoil being a MUCH better airfoil -- to each his own. The Drela foils on the BD have pretty much become the standard for RES planes. It allows very lightly loaded planes to fly over a pretty amazing windspeed range.

The BD clearly excels at working very light lift. While I have moved on to full-house electrics, I laid out an Electric Bubble Dancer without all the carbon in the wings, and construction becomes pretty conventional to get to a very light weight finished product (especially if you purchase an ARF pod and boom from one of the ARF vendors.

I am not saying that either plane is substantially better than the other, but that neither one will disappoint its owner. Both will likely compete with the RES ARF's.

Happy Landings,

Don

BTW: For guys interested in building either one, I would highly recommend going to REF rather than RES.
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Old May 29, 2012, 08:45 AM
Balsa breaks better
Thermaler's Avatar
Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
Not to take anything away from the Oly III, which I think is a very, very good plane, but having built 3 Bubble Dancers over time, you are a bit mis-informed as to the numbers -- and maybe their performance implications.

The Bubble Dancer as normally built (one extra bay on each tip) spans123 inches and has 1044 sq. inches of area (compared to 132 and 1066) for the Oly III. A 59 ounce Oly III has a wing loading of about 8 oz. per square foot and a 33 ounce Bubble Dancer has a wing loading of about 4.5 oz per square foot.

As to the Oly III airfoil being a MUCH better airfoil -- to each his own. The Drela foils on the BD have pretty much become the standard for RES planes. It allows very lightly loaded planes to fly over a pretty amazing windspeed range.

The BD clearly excels at working very light lift. While I have moved on to full-house electrics, I laid out an Electric Bubble Dancer without all the carbon in the wings, and construction becomes pretty conventional to get to a very light weight finished product (especially if you purchase an ARF pod and boom from one of the ARF vendors.

I am not saying that either plane is substantially better than the other, but that neither one will disappoint its owner. Both will likely compete with the RES ARF's.

Happy Landings,

Don

BTW: For guys interested in building either one, I would highly recommend going to REF rather than RES.
Hi Don,
I was expanding on the Mirage v Oly III not the BD.

Joe
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Old May 29, 2012, 09:53 AM
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Joined Jun 2004
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Mirage is the one, by far.

I've built two and have a stretched version on the board. Buy the short kit from Isthmus Models. Build it light and carefully select the additional wood; add carbon to the spars; add spoilers.

Fly your wings off and thank me (and Mr. E) later for such excellent suggestions.
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Old May 29, 2012, 10:37 AM
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Okanagan Falls. British columbia. Canada
Joined Nov 2006
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Mirage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riserflier View Post
Mirage is the one, by far.

I've built two and have a stretched version on the board. Buy the short kit from Isthmus Models. Build it light and carefully select the additional wood; add carbon to the spars; add spoilers.

Fly your wings off and thank me (and Mr. E) later for such excellent suggestions.
I have read Mr E's thread on building his Mirage. I am presently building an Isthmus Models Short Kit of one.
Riserflier. Did you build as per plan, or did you change the stabiliser/elevator to a standard straight spar and twin elevators?. Ken.
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Old May 29, 2012, 11:50 AM
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United States, OK, Moore
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Paragon, Marauder, Oly 3, Mirage... all good choices
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Old May 29, 2012, 01:23 PM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
Joined Aug 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
Not to take anything away from the Oly III, which I think is a very, very good plane, but having built 3 Bubble Dancers over time, you are a bit mis-informed as to the numbers -- and maybe their performance implications.

The Bubble Dancer as normally built (one extra bay on each tip) spans123 inches and has 1044 sq. inches of area (compared to 132 and 1066) for the Oly III. A 59 ounce Oly III has a wing loading of about 8 oz. per square foot and a 33 ounce Bubble Dancer has a wing loading of about 4.5 oz per square foot.

As to the Oly III airfoil being a MUCH better airfoil -- to each his own. The Drela foils on the BD have pretty much become the standard for RES planes. It allows very lightly loaded planes to fly over a pretty amazing windspeed range.

The BD clearly excels at working very light lift. While I have moved on to full-house electrics, I laid out an Electric Bubble Dancer without all the carbon in the wings, and construction becomes pretty conventional to get to a very light weight finished product (especially if you purchase an ARF pod and boom from one of the ARF vendors.

I am not saying that either plane is substantially better than the other, but that neither one will disappoint its owner. Both will likely compete with the RES ARF's.

Happy Landings,

Don

BTW: For guys interested in building either one, I would highly recommend going to REF rather than RES.
Don, He was referencing the Mirage rather than the Bubble Dancer. Still, my Mirage comes in at just under 5 oz/ft - very close to the Bubble dancer loading. Not as good an airfoil, but still a nice flying plane.

The Mirage - built light - will out float the Oly in my experience, but the Bubble Dancer should out fly both hands down.

As to flaps vrs spoilers, I much prefer spoilers on an RE model - bu thats just me
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Old May 29, 2012, 04:05 PM
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San Diego area
Joined Jul 2006
527 Posts
Mirage

I have an e-Mirage. I have an Oly IIs, but not an Oly III.

I love the Mirage and have lots of time on it -my all time favorite RES.

It is light weight. My electrified Mirage weighs 40 oz (even after adding weight to rebuild wing after a rudder servo failure).
It has relatively low weight because it has a flat wing center section so you do not need heavy steel rods, tubes, epoxy, to plug wings into the fuselage. Also, most of the wing is not sheeted.

As mentioned before, the plane has descent wind penetration for such a light bird.

It can do a 360 on its center. It can stand on a wing tip. It can make tight flat 360's without tip stalling. This makes it a particularly fine plane for flying with hawks.

It is "hands off" and very easy to control. For an e-plane, the climbouts are more gentle and easier to control than my other e-RES planes.

Because of its light weight it can be electrified with a cheap motor; My outrunner cost $14 and gives many climbouts. It won't go straight up, but it is enough.

Negative: I would guess that you might get wing flutter at a lower speed than an Oly III.
The Mirage is said to redline at 60 miles per hour.

Anyway, the plane is one fine thermal machine and I am spoiled.

Craig
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Old May 29, 2012, 09:04 PM
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Joined Jun 2004
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"Riserflier. Did you build as per plan, or did you change the stabiliser/elevator to a standard straight spar and twin elevators?."

I stayed with the elevator as per plan. A straight stab/elevator spar is not worth messing with and changes the plan form from the original. The Mirage flies fine with the 1/2 elevator.

I did, however, make the stab/fin assembly removable to transport with minimal risk of damage. I highly recommend this.
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