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Old Jun 08, 2012, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countilaw View Post
Watching this thread is like watching NCIS, CSI or Bones. You can't wait for the next episode.

You go girl !!!

Frank
Needs the exciting watching glue dry music though!!!
Only about 45 minutes a day?? Well, so much for that answer to why I don't build, I just don't have the time!!! That answer always makes me mad.
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Old Jun 09, 2012, 11:56 PM
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Sorry things have slowed.

We haven't quit!!!!

Sometimes my job needs me to step up and put in some OT- which I am grateful for.

More to come next week. I promise!

We are about to glue in the bell-crank assembly and do some hinging- and wing tip carving.

The use of the bell-crank system has come up frequently. I hear you and agree this can be a precarious system to use. I have used them without failure, but that doesn't mean there won't be a first time.

Hopefully it can be seen that Ashley is being very careful in her assembly. If, at any point in the future there is a hint these are loosening up- we will dig back into it to fix it.

Last point-

It has been brought to my attention, and rightfully so, that I need to be more concerned with the safety of my daughter's eyesight and have her wear safety glasses.

Very good point. Safety first when using power tools! (or any tools)

Until next time!

Cheers!

Brian Lundberg
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikebipes View Post
We haven't quit!!!!

Sometimes my job needs me to step up and put in some OT- which I am grateful for.

More to come next week. I promise!

We are about to glue in the bell-crank assembly and do some hinging- and wing tip carving.

The use of the bell-crank system has come up frequently. I hear you and agree this can be a precarious system to use. I have used them without failure, but that doesn't mean there won't be a first time.

Hopefully it can be seen that Ashley is being very careful in her assembly. If, at any point in the future there is a hint these are loosening up- we will dig back into it to fix it.

Last point-

It has been brought to my attention, and rightfully so, that I need to be more concerned with the safety of my daughter's eyesight and have her wear safety glasses.

Very good point. Safety first when using power tools! (or any tools)

Until next time!

Cheers!

Brian Lundberg
Brian, bell cranks worked for us for a very long time and work just as well today as they ever did. Set up correctly they will stay tight and work for decades. I still find some very old planes at swap meets with the system still installed and working well. Old doesn't mean wrong. Back in th day servos cost a bunch so we had to be frugal.
I never noticed Ashley not wearing eye protection but it is a good idea for us all and a good habit to get into, I wear a face shield myself, can't afford new safety glasses and the over my glasses goggles makes my face sweat and they steam up.
Gene
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 11:48 AM
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I appreciate that Gene.
I have wondered if bell-cranks aren't actually a good thing for the hobby. They are a lot more affordable than the cost of another servo. Sometimes the $10 you save- instead of going with a second standard servo- could be put to other things like glue, sandpaper, knife blades, etc. If everything stays tight, I have been debating on using this on my earlier pattern/sport ships like a Kaos, or the Sun Fli 4.

In today's economy, that actually does mean something to a lot of people again.

epoxyearl-

Do you have a picture, or one you can take, to show Ashley and myself how you put your bell-cranks together? It has peaked our interest!

Brian
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikebipes View Post
I appreciate that Gene.
I have wondered if bell-cranks aren't actually a good thing for the hobby. They are a lot more affordable than the cost of another servo. Sometimes the $10 you save- instead of going with a second standard servo- could be put to other things like glue, sandpaper, knife blades, etc. If everything stays tight, I have been debating on using this on my earlier pattern/sport ships like a Kaos, or the Sun Fli 4.

In today's economy, that actually does mean something to a lot of people again.

epoxyearl-

Do you have a picture, or one you can take, to show Ashley and myself how you put your bell-cranks together? It has peaked our interest!

Brian
It isn't something I would do in a high performance plane but for even the bigger sport planes the bell crank system works. It isn't what I would do these days though but in days gone by it is just how it was done. If you have a good hobby shop {mine just sold and isn't so good now} you can look in the U-Control section at the different type of bell cranks and let your mind go wild.
They are still used in the little P-51 kit sold through House of Balsa. I change them a bit from the nyrod they use with U-Control hardware but it's still th same idea.
Not as positive or easy to adjust as two servos but not everyone has a computer radio.
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 04:43 PM
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2 more cents'worth on bellcranks....I add another twin mount above the design one,and put a longer bolt through the doubled version.Side-loads are eliminated from the single bolt and the aileron control rod is also captured in the bellcrank,since there's no room to escape.
Properly designed offset bellcranks were available to give differential throws at one time,for high-wing aircraft,to help turns.

No need for overkill-your system has worked for decades.
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 09:04 PM
Zor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epoxyearl View Post
2 more cents'worth on bellcranks....I add another twin mount above the design one,and put a longer bolt through the doubled version.Side-loads are eliminated from the single bolt and the aileron control rod is also captured in the bellcrank,since there's no room to escape.
Properly designed offset bellcranks were available to give differential throws at one time,for high-wing aircraft,to help turns.

No need for overkill-your system has worked for decades.
Sorry _ _ _ I do not understgand what the second bellcank does or how it cancels side loads on the screw (bolt),

Zor

P.S.: I do not wish to divert from the topic of this thread but I wonder what you are trying to say.
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Last edited by Zor; Jun 10, 2012 at 09:07 PM. Reason: Addin P.S.
Old Jun 11, 2012, 01:51 AM
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Little by little.

It will be interesting to see Ashley work with all the carving.

We just finished hinging the ailerons and flap- and installing the last 2 capstrips above the bell-crank.

Next comes carving and and some sanding and shaping. We are close to starting the second wing.

Brian
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 05:53 AM
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[QUOTE=Zor;21860668]Sorry _ _ _ I do not understgand what the second bellcank does or how it cancels side loads on the screw (bolt),

Zor

P.S.: I do not wish to divert from the topic of this thread but I wonder what you are trying to say.[/QUOTE

Read a second MOUNT,to avoid side loads on the cantilevered bolt.(a mount above,and below,with the bellcrank in between)
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 06:03 AM
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Are you going to describe that wing tip treatment,or am I gonna haf'ta ask?lol.
I see what you did there-neat !
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 07:49 AM
Zor
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Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by epoxyearl View Post
2 more cents'worth on bellcranks....I add another twin mount above the design one,and put a longer bolt through the doubled version.Side-loads are eliminated from the single bolt and the aileron control rod is also captured in the bellcrank,since there's no room to escape.
Properly designed offset bellcranks were available to give differential throws at one time,for high-wing aircraft,to help turns.

No need for overkill-your system has worked for decades.
Trying to clarify the above posting.

2 more cents'worth on bellcranks....

I add another support for the screw holding the bellcrank and use a longer screw; thus that twin mount above the design one avoids the screw to be forced at an angle.

The side-load is still there but it eliminates the single support of the bolt and the tendency to force the bolt axis from being forced out of being at 90 degrees to its support.

The aileron control rod and the bellcrank are thus captured between the two support plates since there's no room to escape and the axis screw is supported both below and above the bellcrank.

Properly designed offset bellcranks were available to give differential throws at one time, for high-wing aircraft,to help turns.

No need for overkill-your system has worked for decades.

This last sentence (highlighted in red by Zor) seem to cancel the improvement of the double support.

Zor
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Last edited by Zor; Jun 11, 2012 at 07:57 AM.
Old Jun 11, 2012, 10:22 AM
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epoxyearl....

Initially we wanted to use ball links on the bell-crank, but could not because there wasn't enough room between the top of the airfoil and the bolt, nor was there enough room under the arm to accept the bolt or the nut, so Ashley and I opted for the locked clevises as shown. They will be soldered to keep them from wallowing out. No room for a locknut. Everything is tight.

I think I get what your saying, and it would be a perfect idea, especially with a ball link as it would be sandwiched between the 2 bell-cranks and the force would be centered on the swivel bolt and won't put an offset torque on the bolt.

I think this is a good idea to use in the future.

Thanks!

Wingtip treatment-

The wingtip is a giant triangle block. After gluing the tip to the out rib, the tip will take its from from carving the balsa down to match the airfoil on the wing. At the moment, the block is not glued to the aileron, but soon will be.

We need to get some hardwood for the control surface treatment. It will keep them from getting banged up and maintain a nice straight edge at the rear of the aileron.

More to come soon!

Brian
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Last edited by EscapeFlyer; Jun 11, 2012 at 10:27 AM.
Old Jun 11, 2012, 11:42 AM
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Ashley, what type of hinges are you using? Can't tell from the photos but it looks like hinge pins? Also, what type of glue did you use for the hinges?? I have been on a quest trying to find a good hinge glue after Pacer quit making there hinge glue. I use either/or epoxy or Gorilla Glue and I'm not happy with either.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 01:13 PM
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I am letting Ashley answer:

The Hinges are robart hinge points. We have not glued in the robart hinge points yet. We are going to rough up the edges with sand paper and use wood glue (titebond 2).

Ashley

Gene-

I have done some testing with this and found that to pull these hingepoints out of the TE and control surfaces, I had to use a pair of pliers and it ripped the TE out of the wing.... The hingepoint stayed glued in! (Robart also recommends this method.)

There is a plus to using the wood glue as well. If you accidently get glue into the hinge, you simply flex the hinge and the glue breaks free.

I think this works because the surfaces in the joint are smooth and there is noting for the glue to grab.

I wouldn't recommend this method for pinned hinges though. I tried it and it does NOT work! Go figure....

Brian
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