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Old Oct 02, 2012, 04:17 PM
RC beginner
New York
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Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
this is no more possible than getting a plane to fly backwards. reversing motor direction does not reverse thrust.
ahhh... i see where a lot of the confusion (and there is a lot not just on this point) with you and nerys. i did make a mistake. it was ridiculous for me to say reversing the motor dont change thrust. i meant PROP not motor. but i will say reversing the motor OR the prop on one of these quads will not allow it to fly. and there was no mistype in all my subsequent replies.

anyway i was wondering why nerys kept going on and on when we were in 100% agreement on that point of general theory. it should have been obvious it was a mistype. but he fixated on that error and instead of correcting or reading follow ups just ranted. and of course you followed suit needing no instigation at all to do your thing. so nobodys perfect (but im dam close). lol!

reversing the prop and reversing direction are two different things. its common for most to believe reversing the prop will reverse thrust but any noob will guess reversing direction does that. i will still insist that you cant fly a v939 upside down just like you cant fly a small plane with backwards prop. not in any practical sense. of course "skidding across the floor" is allowed. my octo performs somewhat better... ie better than the quad version.

anyway show me where i said:

Originally Posted by dave1993
btw brandigan is right (it could happen), cheap, fast, and pretty good. all three.

you completely altered my statement. again, truncation is chopping the end off, not changing the content of the post completely. and it wasnt the only time.
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Last edited by dave1993; Oct 02, 2012 at 04:35 PM. Reason: truncation is not misquoting
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandigan View Post
The first one isn't under the centre, although that might not be entirely obvious from the picture. What happens is the top two rotate about where they are attached and the whole thing rotates about the centre. So basically, 4 loaded feet are a distributed pendulum and will wobble about the pivot point, which could be somewhere slightly above the main board, depending on their weight. The pivot point doesn't actually have to be on the thing itself (which seems weird ) as in the second one.

Once you got the quad moving, you'd get one of these at each corner, according to wikipedia.


Off topic really, but of course weight at any point effects balance, even if evenly distributed, especially if you apply Yaw to it. Take a bicycle wheel, turn on it's side, then spin it. Then try and tilt it. The centrepetal effect resists you. Even if you didn't spin it, it would balance differently to just putting the hub on it's side with no rim attached. Or, take two buckets of sand and hold them with your arms out straight. Then tilt to the side. You'll fall over.
The difference is that in all examples you've shown the mass is concentrated at the bottom, when talking about the zip tie landing gear the mass is at the top (since they are secured to the motor holder, which weighs much more than said zip ties). With the zip ties you are only very very slightly moving the center of gravity down on the vertical plane, and even then because you are doing it on all four corners you are not increasing the likelihood to pendulum. Using the above examples doesn't work well because those examples all show a single point of connection, but we are dealing with four points rigidly connected. The inertia on all four corners will be equal, so you wouldn't get that effect on each corner (especially with mass concentrated at the top, flip one of those pendulums upside down so the ball end is the pivot point and see what happens, you will greatly lose any tendency to pendulum.

As far as the other analogies, while you are technically correct this quad cannot yaw nearly fast enough for that gyroscopic effect to come into play, and compared to the mass already at the outside of the "wheel"/quad frame the zip ties make very very little difference.

I actually just got some buckets filled with oil at work and thought about trying to spin around, but I figure that dropping buckets filled with tack coat might be frowned upon

In short: I agree there is an effect with the added weight, much as you described but a lot less severe, but I don't believe that is causing the poor flight characteristics some are reporting with this mod. However I do believe that Mike (who I think may be from Germany, but I'm not sure ) has come up with a plan that both lightens the skids, lessening the effect you are talking about, and keeps any drag inducing surfaces out of the prop wash, reducing the effects I was talking about. So win/win doing it that way if you require/desire extra ground clearance (otherwise might as well stay stock, there have not been many/any reports that I can remember of the stock lg breaking on these quads)
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
i meant PROP not motor. but i will say reversing the motor OR the prop on one of these quads will not allow it to fly. and there was no mistype in all my subsequent replies.
Challenge accepted. You've clearly forgotten people can read your previous posts, but keep on rewriting history. It's mildly amusing watching your mental processes. Of course you meant PROP not motor. Oh hang on. If you reversed a PROP, how could it also be variable pitch... Hmmm. Stumped me there.

Very big of you to "still insist" that the v929 can't fly upside down after I proved it, but you'll recall it was in the other thread that nerys and you were discussing LB sized quads. I know you know that because after the experiment with the U816 when I suggested I might try it on a v929 as well you thought it might work because you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
considering the bigger props are almost an order of magnitude more efficient this version might actually turn out to be controllable. unfortunately the higher mass would work against you when reversing direction in nerys "3d quad" scenario.
OK, you certainly can't be any clearer. Wait for the video of the U816 flying upside down. Again. Then get someone to watch it for you and tell you how great it looks.

Now, as a self-proclaimed prop expert you do realise that swapping a U816 CW for a CCW prop is the same as reversing the rotation of the motor with the original CW prop on it. Right? Just making sure that's completely clear.

Just one thing: If you previously didn't understand what you were typing before through several pages of posts. How do we know that you know what you're typing now?

How many fingers am I holding up?
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Last edited by Brandigan; Oct 02, 2012 at 05:21 PM.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skitchen8 View Post
The difference is that in all examples you've shown the mass is concentrated at the bottom, when talking about the zip tie landing gear the mass is at the top
Not really, but whatever.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 05:25 PM
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Ladies, nice of a couple of ya'll to include an on topic relatable snippet with yer bitchns... but didn't skitchen8 make a new thread specifically for these "discussions and banterings"?? :confuse:
Perhaps being the center of attention is Life itself to you... or being right is critical to your egos.... but really... this is already quite tedious... and nobody cares.
IMO
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 05:25 PM
┌∩┐(⋟﹏⋞)┌∩┐ The FAA
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It almost seems as this thread has turned into a pissing match
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 05:28 PM
┌∩┐(⋟﹏⋞)┌∩┐ The FAA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vpsporb View Post
Ladies, nice of a couple of ya'll to include an on topic relatable snippet with yer bitchns... but didn't skitchen8 make a new thread specifically for these "discussions and banterings"?? :confuse:
Perhaps being the center of attention is Life itself to you... or being right is critical to your egos.... but really... this is already quite tedious... and nobody cares.
IMO

+1

I know someone is going to peg him for this post being off topic so I will take care of it this is one of those off topic posts that is used to get everyone back on topic, kinda like pulling a gun on someone to have them put down their gun.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 05:45 PM
Sir Crashalot
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Ok, let's get back to v929 talk. I just got the new board w/ the 8 plugs from BG; the extra plugs can be turned on and off by the top right button of the v939 tx, but it's only a toggle, no throttle control. I plug in a motor and it does run, at one speed only and independently of the four motors that are tied to the throttle. So even though these plugs are probably meant for leds, they might be able to handle one (or more) motors. The voltage out is about 4 volts w/ no other motors running, drops a bit when they are.

I forgot who was planning to put in an extra motor for lift, and looking for a throttle signal to control it. One of the led plugs might be able to serve that purpose, but no throttle control, it's all or nothing (can think of it as a push button turbo boost).
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 05:59 PM
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Thanks stonecutter.

But I am confuse. How are you triggering that channel to determine there is no throttle control? Using the original TX? Or are you binding to a programmable radio?

Thanks.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 06:06 PM
RC beginner
New York
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does anybody know what channel those led plugs are on? i get no response with ch5 on my 9x.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandigan View Post
Not really, but whatever.
I'm confused by what you mean? If you take a string with a weight on the bottom and hold it at the top it will pendulum back and forth for awhile when dropped from the side. If you then hold onto the weight and drop the string on the side it won't pendulum back and forth anywhere near as much.

That's not even up for debate, it is simple fact. You can feel free to perform the experiment yourself: take a length of string and tie it around a battery at one end.

I don't disagree with you saying there is an effect, just that it isn't enough to make as big of a difference as people have said they got when removing their zip ties.

And Idk if I was the one being called out in the off topic comment, but the best way to put extended landing gear on this quad is quite relevant to the topic of the thread. I am not the only one flying with a camera and the stock lg is not quite enough protection for a camera that costs the same as the quad in my opinion.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by nightfox7 View Post
+1

I know someone is going to peg him for this post being off topic so I will take care of it this is one of those off topic posts that is used to get everyone back on topic, kinda like pulling a gun on someone to have them put down their gun.
This post is off topic

I'm sorry, I tried to hit the back button but my finger slipped and hit Submit Reply instead. Please forgive me
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 06:37 PM
Sir Crashalot
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Originally Posted by Daryoon View Post
Thanks stonecutter.

But I am confuse. How are you triggering that channel to determine there is no throttle control? Using the original TX? Or are you binding to a programmable radio?

Thanks.
I mean no throttle control using the v939 tx (plugs turned on-off via "flip" button on top right of tx). I can't say anything regarding programmable radios, since I don't own one, but I think I see where you are heading. My knowledge of RC radios is limited, let's say those plugs are on a separate channel, and a programmable radio can communicate w/ the rx on that channel, but if the rx is not designed to expect the range of signal parameters that the radio can send (for throttle), then I don't think the rx can properly interpret the throttle signal. Just thinking outloud.
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 06:37 PM
Stop me before I build again!
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Anyone know where to buy replacement prop sets for the v929?
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Old Oct 02, 2012, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by brontide View Post
Anyone know where to buy replacement prop sets for the v929?
Bang good has them as far as I know. I would imagine tmart does too. Maybe Amazon, and/or eBay.
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