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Old May 19, 2012, 06:23 AM
Bouras Slope Flyers
FRIDAY_2008's Avatar
Athens, Greece
Joined Mar 2008
480 Posts
Careful!
Topmodel Customer Service - Albatros 2,4 balsa box wrong thrust

Hi

I bought recently an Albatros 2,4 directly from Topmodel. While I was in the build process, I noticed that the balsa box used for cutting the nose and installing the motor firewall, had left angle (right thrust) and not the opposite, as it was supposed. I tried to install it the other way round, but it was not possible. Notice here, that there were no instructions as how it should be assembled nor had marks on it. So, as this is my first sailplane, I thought it might be this way as they may use different rotation props and went on cutting the fuse.

Lately I foumd out that it is indeed wrong, but the damage has been done. Contacted Topmodel to inform them, and they replied that because of me noticing it, they realised it can be built wrong ways, so they made marks on it. But nothing about my wrong cutted fuse.

On a second email, I asked them to replace the fuse since it was their fault, but 2 weeks now, no reply.

Take good care when building this balsa box. Also, if someone has it, please give me a note if he was able to build it right, in case it was my fault and I am wrongly jump on them.

Thanks
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Old May 19, 2012, 06:25 AM
Bouras Slope Flyers
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Athens, Greece
Joined Mar 2008
480 Posts
A photo also
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Old May 19, 2012, 09:40 AM
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Lake Louise, AB, Canada
Joined Feb 2000
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Sorry,but just to help you understand their position. Many model manufacturers assume some building experience and responsibility for what they do. You seem to know that a model needs right thrust and you did not think that goal through as you assembled the box. You noticed the problem but cut away the nose anyway without asking anyone? It looks to me that the box was assembled inside out so to speak and that flipping the parts before piecing it together would produce the correct shape.

Sorry about your issue... I might be tempted to cut the correct angle and use a larger spinner to fit a slightly shorter nose. If a firewall was supplied, just make another. I end up doing that anyway to better fit the bolt pattern and cooling holes on the Hyperion GS motors.

Cheers!

Glen
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Old May 19, 2012, 10:15 AM
Bouras Slope Flyers
FRIDAY_2008's Avatar
Athens, Greece
Joined Mar 2008
480 Posts
When I saw the problem, I tried to install it correctly, but no way this could be done.

I have now made it to have left thrust, by putting shims in the motor. My fault was that I went ahead and cut it, but they should provide at least basic instructions or better parts, as it was by no means was going to be assembled right.

Anyway. If I lived in a remote place, without having some help, I was doomed not to fly anything ? Assuming I was a begginer ? Even cars, that everyone knows how to handle a car have manuals...

I ll be more carefull next time
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Old May 19, 2012, 10:42 AM
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gpeden's Avatar
Lake Louise, AB, Canada
Joined Feb 2000
3,567 Posts
Did you try to build the jig correctly before you tried installing it? Flip the two sides inside out and assemble the other pieces to fit.....

The jig is a nice touch - many times one has to measure and cut to install a motor.
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Old May 19, 2012, 01:23 PM
Bouras Slope Flyers
FRIDAY_2008's Avatar
Athens, Greece
Joined Mar 2008
480 Posts
Yes I did. Actually one side is longer than the other, thus, resulting in the thrust angle. When I tried to fit the long side to the left, it just couldn't fit no matter what. Here it was that I said myself, if they as manufacturers did it that way, they should know better than me, which came to be
a wrong assumption.

The sailplane itself is of amazing quality, but this was areal drawback. As it is once more, when you buy first batch you get yourself to be a beta tester
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Old May 19, 2012, 01:46 PM
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Lake Louise, AB, Canada
Joined Feb 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRIDAY_2008 View Post
Yes I did. Actually one side is longer than the other, thus, resulting in the thrust angle. When I tried to fit the long side to the left, it just couldn't fit no matter what.
Hi there,

Interesting exercise trying to visualize what can be changed to assemble it differently, what with the asymmetric placement and size of the tabs that I can see And I'm sorry if my effort to communicate clearly makes it sound like I don't believe you, but now I'm fascinated....

Looking at the photo,pull the jig apart and what is now the top could drop down to the table. Then leave the sides in the same place and flip them so the outside now faces into the piece now on the table. The nose piece would be flipped around and it would fit. I simply cannot see how this would not work. Please try what I said here. Please, it's now driving me crazy
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Old May 19, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Woodstock 1's Avatar
Ireland, County Kerry, Kerry
Joined Dec 2005
6,994 Posts
Erm?? Am I being stupid here, but don't you normally want RIGHT THRUST ? Or is this a pusher plane, or using reverse thrust propellers?
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Old May 19, 2012, 03:57 PM
Bouras Slope Flyers
FRIDAY_2008's Avatar
Athens, Greece
Joined Mar 2008
480 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpeden View Post
Hi there,

Interesting exercise trying to visualize what can be changed to assemble it differently, what with the asymmetric placement and size of the tabs that I can see And I'm sorry if my effort to communicate clearly makes it sound like I don't believe you, but now I'm fascinated....

Looking at the photo,pull the jig apart and what is now the top could drop down to the table. Then leave the sides in the same place and flip them so the outside now faces into the piece now on the table. The nose piece would be flipped around and it would fit. I simply cannot see how this would not work. Please try what I said here. Please, it's now driving me crazy

You see, the upper plate is used to stop the fuselage at the right length where it needs to be cut. Unfortunately, there is no way this could be installed in the bottom, as there are no cuts to be fitted. If that would be able to be done it would have solved the problem.

All my airplanes firewalls point the motor to the right while this one points the motor to the left.
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Old May 19, 2012, 06:09 PM
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gpeden's Avatar
Lake Louise, AB, Canada
Joined Feb 2000
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You don't understand yet, I fear. After you reassemble in the manner I am trying to explain you then flip it over and the top is back on top, only now you have right thrust. I'm saying to do it that particular way to simply keep track of how pieces are to moved relative to each other. Please take a leap of faith and just do this and then please tell me why it won't work. I am not telling you to install it on the glider the way it is finished assembly upside-down on the table! Please try and I'll go away if it does not work

Hi Woodstock, yes he wants right thrust but the way he assembled the jig he got left thrust. I'm trying to get him to reassemble the jig inside out so to speak.

Cheers!
Glen
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Old May 19, 2012, 06:18 PM
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gpeden's Avatar
Lake Louise, AB, Canada
Joined Feb 2000
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OK, imagine the jig as you currently have it assembled was made of rubber and now imagine turning it inside out like a surgical glove ALL the interlocking pieces retain exactly the same positional relationship and still mesh exactly the same way. But now you have right thrust. If you do not at least give a try reconstructing the jig this way then I'm going to conclude that you really do not want to understand....

Hey, why not try this if disassembling the jig is too much trouble. Take a rubber glove, say a right handed one; mark the top/back to keep orientation; turn it inside out. Guess what? Now you have a left handed glove!

Edit: and to help with relevance, the firewall rests against the thumb and forefinger tips and the angle offset is the thrust angle

Edit 2: OK OK, take the existing jig and put a mark on the outside face of each piece. Now assemble it with the marks inside.

Looking forward to extracting my foot if I'm wrong

That''s all I got to give........

Glen
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Old May 20, 2012, 04:56 AM
Bouras Slope Flyers
FRIDAY_2008's Avatar
Athens, Greece
Joined Mar 2008
480 Posts
What you suggest, really makes sense. I ll try it on Monday and come back to you. Though, if I remember right, the upper and lower cuts are not of the same distance which causes the cuts to be misaligned. I ll dissasemble it and check it.

Many thanks for your effort
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Old May 29, 2012, 03:35 PM
Bouras Slope Flyers
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Athens, Greece
Joined Mar 2008
480 Posts
So here I am. Did what you suggested, but still I get the same angle. Motor still points to the left.
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Old May 29, 2012, 05:13 PM
Fly It Like You Stole It !!
Paulbilbo91z9f's Avatar
United States, MA, Pittsfield
Joined Sep 2011
245 Posts
Throw the Jig Away

I've been building planes for 30 years+++ and I've been reading this thread for a few weeks. I have also assembled a TopModel kit before and can understand your dismay, but feel you must be in over your head with the build. I don't want to sound unsympathetic to your plight, but THROW THE JIG AWAY!!!!!! It's not that big a deal.......You don't need it and can build the kit without it.........

#1) I fully agree with Glen from post #3. The TopModel people assume that you have enough experience to assemble the ARF with little-to-no instructions. The instructions they supply are little more than pictures and dimensions anyway and you take it from there. Most kits can be built in different formats; servo locations, wing joiners, battery trays, LE angles, etc.......... The instructions are only a "Suggested" way to put the kit together. Depending on your intended usage, you might want to do things differently.

#2) The kits (ARF's) that they sell are not listed for beginners. You need to have enough building experience to be able to make critical decisions for yourself. As in your case, if the pitch was the wrong way - DON'T DO IT!!!! Ask the manufacturer or ask here on RC Groups. There is always someone willing to help.

#3) Understand your project completely "BEFORE" you start. If you have a problem or didn't understand something, ask the questions before starting to cut or drill something wrong. It's a lot harder to fix after.

And Last,

Almost every plane I purchase today is a used one. I find MANY damaged or poor flying planes that can be picked up very cheaply. Too many people fall into the trap of spending good money and then screwing up the build. They become discouraged when their new plane doesn't fly well or does not meet their expectations and want to get rid of it. Then I come in and buy it, make the needed changes and add another plane to my hanger.

I guess what I'm saying is, Don't become one of my suppliers. Use you r head and do it right the first time.

Paul M.
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Old May 30, 2012, 08:38 AM
The original Flying Pigs Sqd.
Up&Away's Avatar
Netanya, Israel
Joined Aug 2002
10,092 Posts
Can you show us a few pictures of your current situation? Nose on - right side - top?
How did you fix the motormount? I've had screwups in the past and just dremmeled out the motormount, made a new one and glued it back in. This time the right way (ok, so one time I glued it back in wrong again. But nobody saw it so it doesn't count...)
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