Originally Posted by cyclops2

I recall 5 or so years ago a WHOLE pallet of Lithums caught fire at a plane loading. This is probably the end result of that problem.

To say nothing of the loss of two 747's and their crews.

Two UPS pilots killed as freighter crashes near Dubai

Another cargo aircraft carrying batteries crashes – off South Korea

Originally Posted by RC Man

Is it true that LiPo batteries don’t really have lithium in them but only harmless compounds and that’s the reason that they are not hazardous material when you dispose of them?

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No metallic Li no. The Li present is in a ceramic compound (eg LiMnO4 but there are others) and goes straight to Li Ions in solution.

The danger in Li rechargeable batteries is that high enough temps can cause the electrolyte to decompose (exothermic reaction) producing various hydrocarbons and enough heat to cause the electrode to decompose and produce oxygen. You can probably see what happens next.

However certain designs (LiFePO4 for example) are highly resistant to this behaviour

I noticed in the articles it says lipos that were in a device like laptops were the culprits in most of these instances. It also says that some of the cells used in the devices were maybe not made to the proper standards. I didn't see anything about the lipos we use.


Mark

Originally Posted by desertstalker

No metallic Li no. The Li present is in a ceramic compound (eg LiMnO4 but there are others) and goes straight to Li Ions in solution.

The danger in Li rechargeable batteries is that high enough temps can cause the electrolyte to decompose (exothermic reaction) producing various hydrocarbons and enough heat to cause the electrode to decompose and produce oxygen. You can probably see what happens next.

However certain designs (LiFePO4 for example) are highly resistant to this behaviour

I don’t think that the folks at the local post office have any idea as to the difference between LiPo and LiFePO4. It’s such a complicated rule that I don’t really see how it can be enforced. Most have no idea if the phone or computer they are shipping has a lithium battery.

.

Just wondering how this whole thing is going to play out...

Considering that LIPO's are now in just about everything from Cameras, Laptops, Phones, Tablets to Hand Drills... Kind of silly to have rules that stop battery shipments but completely ignore all the devices that have them internally removable or not.

This are a pain in the rear. I have the local shipping restrictions rep on speed dial on my phone and I check in every month to make sure I am not missing anything. They did change it so we can ship to APO's. I guess they figured it is impossible to not ship something with a battery to our soldiers! No laptops, cell phones, camera, electric razors, electric toothbrush and so on!

I do pay alot of attention to this as I am an airline pilot and this does DIRECTLY affect the safety of MY flights! I am kinda caught in the middle as a pilot. Our union, ALPA is lobbying for tougher restrictions, and as a battery distributer I am hoping for reasonable and sensible regulation. We will see what happens!

mark

No matter how many restrictions you put in place there will still be cases when dumb people package things poorly:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1787072

As always a few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us. Every lipo I've ever purchased from a vendor has been well packaged. Seems to me that with minimal work they could offer lithium shipper permits to battery vendors and then do occasional random inspections of a package or two once or twice a year to ensure they are following packaging guidelines.

This starting to remind anyone of the gun control debates?

so, if the limitations mainly apply to orders going out of the country, what about orders coming in?
will they deliver a package that contains lithium polymer cells that are not installed in a product if the package came from over seas i.e. china or other countries?

Originally Posted by 2dogrc

They did change it so we can ship to APO's. I guess they figured it is impossible to not ship something with a battery to our soldiers!

mark

Either it didn't change or someone didn't get the memo. I'm currently stationed in Afghanistan, and all I wanted for xmas was a heli to fly during my rare downtime. three different sites rejected me at checkout due to the no battery thing. So instead of happily flying, I'm spending my christmas cruising the forums.

Originally Posted by Snafu13F

Either it didn't change or someone didn't get the memo. I'm currently stationed in Afghanistan, and all I wanted for xmas was a heli to fly during my rare downtime. three different sites rejected me at checkout due to the no battery thing. So instead of happily flying, I'm spending my christmas cruising the forums.

I think 2dogrc is wrong. You can only ship devices with the battery preinstalled to APO:

Only lithium cells and batteries under 135.62 and 135.63
that are properly installed in the equipment they are
intended to operate may be sent internationally or to APO,
FPO, or DPO locations when not restricted or prohibited by
the destination country or APO, FPO, or DPO location.
....
Lithium batteries packed with equipment and lithium
batteries sent separate from equipment are prohibited.

So in theory all you gotta do is get someone to open the heli and install the battery