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Old Jun 22, 2012, 03:04 PM
pondside
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Sutton, Ma.
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Originally Posted by ScottGridley View Post
Here's my #16 cam mount for the Carbon Cub.

I wanted to mount the cam near the CG under the fuselage, with a slight downward angle. I wanted to avoid restricting airflow into the battery compartment, and I wanted some additional security and stability over just velcro-ing the cam to the foam (hate to loose the cam in an unfortunate 3-4% event!). I also realized attachment just to the battery hatch is not practical as it will inevitably open with the weight of the cam attached.

So, I CA'd a pair of T-pins into the thick foam behind the battery compartment. They look a little like scale step-ups.

I then added two small bits of velcro to the battery compartment.

Girth hitched an elastic band to the keychain cam, then put the elastic over the T-pins. Stick the velcro to the camera, and good to go!
We want Video!!!

BD
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 03:13 PM
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United States, MA, Rutland
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Originally Posted by pondside View Post
We want Video!!!
I've got some! Next learning curve is #16-->YouTube!
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 05:19 PM
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Not true at all. Most (if not all) cordless phone manufacturers offer handsets individually for their expandable systems. Many people add handsets to the systems later on, and handset prices can be rather high for some systems. So, there would definitely be a market.

You still haven't addressed the main question: Why aren't there any aftermarket DSM2, DSMX, or FASST receivers at the local shops or US distributors? HK doesn't even stock Orange receivers at their US location. In the days of public-domain analog AM & FM RC, every hobby shop had rows & rows of aftermarket receivers. Where are all of the aftermarket FASST, DSM2, and DSMX receivers? Obviously, there must be a reason for this, and it is most definitely not a marketing or profit-margin issue.

Joel
As others have pointed out - they ARE on the shelves at LHS's in the states. They also are available here, both mail order australian shops and in some bricks and mortar ones. And in the UK and EU. I would suspect that the better the relationship you have with Horizon the less likely you are to stock them . There is certainly a market for them.

What you are ignoring are all the examples of emulated hardware and reverse engineered software or comms protocols that have been bought up. I know you don't like the idea but its been done over and over again - I've even shown you examples of legislation where this is *expressly* permitted. It sounded to me in your reply to fryfrog like you even have an AMD PC? Mind blown. Genuine intel for me - that's just my personal preference, not some belief in the immorality of clones. For the record they were better than Intel for a while, but its not been true in the 64bit era. But that's an opinion - and I digress.

Horizons very lukewarm non-committal press release about Orange and the counterfeit (actually illegal) "spektrum" devices - paraphrasing: "don't trust them we wont support them - at your own risk". They haven't made a fuss IMO because they know where they stand legally.

And I'm sorry but the cordless phone example just doesn't fly for me. The Chinese makers can probably make the base unit cheaper anyway. It's economics not legality - given all the other clone devices that are already out there in droves.

What this boils down to is consumer choice - which is ALWAYS a good thing. You make your own value judgements about quality and I will make mine. Just don't act like its illegal or somehow immoral. Browbeating people with technical details down at the lowest level doesn't change the fact that you can emulate hardware and write your own firmware to make it interoperable. Price gouging is immoral as far as I am concerned. Especially when you have a somewhat dedicated customer base. But I guess Horizons shareholders disagree. The fact they can make clones of these receivers for around a 10th the price of the ridgey didge ones just shows you exactly why a monopoly is bad.

I love Horizon stuff. 4 blade helis, 2 UM's, 2 UMX's , 2 TX's and lots of spares so far. I still have about another 10 aircraft from thier line I would love to try and sneak past the missus. I bought my radios expressly for the helis, so they got me locked in there. I've even bought AR6xx's to put in my nine eagles planes - but only because they were a half price special. But this doesn't extend to getting bent over repeatedly when I want an RX to use in a cheap foamie. They have enough of my money - and will no doubt be getting a lot more of it. As far as I am concerned their RX's are ridiculously overpriced. Maybe if they get a bit closer to what are reasonable market prices people wouldn't bother? If they were twice the price of Orange it would be a lot more attractive to me, I would even consider them at a little more than that. They would also be undercutting the other 2.4ghz systems and would probably sell a lot more. My point here is there is a very fine line between brand loyalty and fanboyism.

In my PNF / ARF parkflyers I will and do use the orange gear. I'm building a bigger seaplane right now - its got an Orange rx with a satellite. Testing so far gives me no cause for concern. I won't feel guilty about it - that's just ridiculous. I will take all the usual precautions and I will cop it on the chin if something goes wrong.

Just like I don't feel guilty about using aftermarket lipos or clones of anything else that work. I have had issues with batteries, the conditions, pilot error, mistakes I have made in construction while learning, angry birds and servo problems , but only one single RX problem. Which was a brownout on my 120SR . Complete loss of control and straight into the deck to be greeted with a broken off tail and a lovely flashing LED. On the real deal no less. A few possibilities of course but after taking a look at the battery I'm pretty sure it was a lockup.

YMMV. Not all devices from the same assembly line will be the same. QA can get better or worse. Lots of people have had issues with genuine horizon RX's or bricks.Plural of anecdote is not "data" of course , which is why (like the CC servo debacle) I like to make my own mind up. I'm a pragmatist.

Spektrum had a brilliant idea - build a FHSS radio system in the ISM band using off the shelf programmable components. And they have been very successful. Unfortunately for them its very repeatable and they have been milking it a little too hard. Show me them winning a lawsuit and I will eat crow - but my experience tells me that's not going to happen. That's how they ruled in the intel/amd fracas, that's how the clone PC situation went in the late 80's / early nineties went and that's how this will go too. You can protect your firmware and software, your trademarks and your branding and patents - but you CANNOT stop people emulating it or reverse engineering something compatible - especially if you built it with similar generic parts to begin with. Like every single electronics manufacturer on the planet does now.

Witness all the aftermarket i<whatever> accessories if you don't believe me. On the shelf in the entire western world. Think those are all licensed? Think again. Your examples in the automotive industry? Only matters if you are a dealer and have a contract. You can still pick up those parts legally and put them in via someone else or yourself.

I've just been looking through other threads on here about the orange receivers - I'm not the first person to point all this out it appears.

I've said my bit - We are simply not going to agree about this obviously and I think we have threadjacked enough as it is. Make all the quality arguments you wan't. No need to extend it to some sort of moral issue - it's certainly not a legal one.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 05:28 PM
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McCarthy, Alaska
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I chatted with ICU about the possibility of him making some lightweight hubs for the Trexler tires at his Shapeway shop. He is interested and looking into it. Will let you know if it actually develops. I know the Trexlers are not the cheapest solution even without the additional expense of buying new wheels for them, but they are super nice on the Cub.

Here are a few pictures, maybe someone else has another idea? I think someone said they mounted the Trexlers on the original hubs by using washers on each side.

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Old Jun 22, 2012, 08:10 PM
If it spins, wear it.
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Northern Nevada
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Originally Posted by WSEN View Post
I chatted with ICU about the possibility of him making some lightweight hubs for the Trexler tires at his Shapeway shop. He is interested and looking into it. Will let you know if it actually develops. I know the Trexlers are not the cheapest solution even without the additional expense of buying new wheels for them, but they are super nice on the Cub.

Here are a few pictures, maybe someone else has another idea? I think someone said they mounted the Trexlers on the original hubs by using washers on each side.

Attachment 4957801

Attachment 4957802
Turn some with a drill and some balsa? Or a small lathe. Is balsa too heavy?
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 08:47 PM
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McCarthy, Alaska
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I don't think balsa would be too heavy, but would need something to reinforce the axle hole?

I just weighed a trexler #5 tire with no rim and it was 3.6 g. I cannot easily weigh the rim right now but it appears the bulk of the weight may actually be the tires?
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 01:22 AM
If it spins, wear it.
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Northern Nevada
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Originally Posted by WSEN View Post
I don't think balsa would be too heavy, but would need something to reinforce the axle hole?

I just weighed a trexler #5 tire with no rim and it was 3.6 g. I cannot easily weigh the rim right now but it appears the bulk of the weight may actually be the tires?
You may save some weight with a lighter hub but your likely right about the bulk of the weight being the tires. With the CC, I doubt reinforcing the axle hole is necessary, not much of a landing load.
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 01:40 AM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
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Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
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I wonder if he can make hubs (wheels) for the Trexlers that don't stick way out like that and don't have such a large flange? Part of getting the scale look is having a small and recessed wheel... like these (my version 2) I made tonight for my Champ...


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Old Jun 24, 2012, 09:03 PM
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3s on the carbon cub is a no go. At least with this brick.

I have a 5.5 x 2 on order, Im excited to see what that will do.
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mitsudriver274 View Post
3s on the carbon cub is a no go. At least with this brick.

I have a 5.5 x 2 on order, Im excited to see what that will do.
Why is it a no go?
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:24 PM
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I believe it's hitting over current protection. I can advance the throttle up to 20% past that the motor cuts out, if I throttle down and up again the motor will kick in but cut right back out if I advance it past 20%, maybe using the stock prop with 3s will work better as it has a little less pitch.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:44 PM
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Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
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3S would put it way beyond scale like flight.

What's the point of flying a Cub like it's a P-51?

(or a P-51 like it's Cub?)

It already performs beyond what the full-scale Carbon Cub can do.

Pete
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 06:03 PM
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East Bethel, MN USA
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Originally Posted by PeteSchug View Post
3S would put it way beyond scale like flight.

What's the point of flying a Cub like it's a P-51?

(or a P-51 like it's Cub?)

It already performs beyond what the full-scale Carbon Cub can do.

Pete
My thoughts, as well. I have my 3s Beast 3D & 3s Sbach for non-scale, 300+W/pound ballistic flight! For me, the CC is all about low & slow, ROW, towing, scale bush-flying, simulated STOL competitions, and scale Super Cub-style aerobatics. With a decent 2s pack & a 5030 prop, I can easily accomplish all of the above at part-throttle.

Joel
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Last edited by turboparker; Jun 25, 2012 at 06:10 PM.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 10:25 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
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Canada, AB, Edmonton
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... and from all the videos I've been watching, it's already too fast... for scale

... now, my Champ... at 1/3 throttle... looks scale
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Old Jun 26, 2012, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by North_of_49 View Post
... and from all the videos I've been watching, it's already too fast... for scale

... now, my Champ... at 1/3 throttle... looks scale
Bear in mind that the speeds seem in line with dynamic scaling, but also consider that in dynamic scaling TIME IS ALSO SCALED.

Things happen about four times as fast as with the full-sized Carbon Cub.

I'm hoping to get some 4X slow motion video of the Cub to see what it looks like landing and things like that.

If you have doubts about dynamic scaling talk to Burt Rutan. That's how his company has been making money for the past thirty or so years.

Rutan's company, Scaled Composits was originally devoted to making small, dynamically scaled planes to do test flights with before building a full sized prototype. Most of them or maybe all carried a pilot. By understanding dynamic scaling they were able to predict the flight performance of the full sized versions without the expense of a full sized prototype.

Edit: Just dug through a couple of articles on Scaled Composits and the only clear cut example of dynamic scaling I could find was the Beech Starship. Beech bought Scaled Composites but left Rutan in charge. I read a lot about dynamic scaling in an article about Rutan many years ago.

Whatever, dynamic scaling is a valuable predictor of performance, barring Reynolds number effects at our very small scales. A Google search will get you articles with more equations than your average textbook on stellar dynamics. Oops, there's that word again!

Point is that you have to scale time and at the scale of the Carbon Cub things happen roughly four times as fast as full scale and the plane flies roughly one quarter as fast.

Sorry to babble so much. This has been an interest of mine for thirty or forty years.

Pete
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