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Old May 03, 2012, 03:42 PM
Puddle Jumper
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San Diego
Joined Jul 2007
49 Posts
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Suggestions on getting into DLG

I'm looking at getting into DLG after flying electrics for the past couple of years, and started looking into some of the competition level birds like the Stobel, SalPeter, ConceptX2 and Polaris to name a few. Please suggest others if you'd like. I've received some feedback from a couple guys associated with the IHLGF, and it appears I should be looking at the higher-end as apposed to some of the other lower-end like many hobby goers recommend for newbies. I know this is speculative, seeing that everyone's experiences are different, but I don't mind making a small investment if it means a better flying outcome.

Obviously, I don't want to break the bank, but I'm going to assume that any of the competition level planes will start at around $800 on up to the thousand dollar range. I don't mind used if I can find them, but my searches on the web have come up short. I've also noticed that finding a vendor, or manufacturer here in the states isn't always easy because a majority of the DLG makers are European. I've seen the list of glider makers here on the forum, so that is a good start, but I definitely feel like I'm shooting in the dark.

Seeing as I'm just getting into gliding, I was hoping you could explain what the different options are when buying a DLG.

What is a disser wing? What are the differences in a carbon vs a competition one?

What is a D Box?

What is RDS and is it important to have?

What is LE, GRP, HMS?

A lot of questions, I know, so if anyone can direct me through the ins-and-outs of DLG it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Burt
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Old May 03, 2012, 03:52 PM
Team Hong Kong F3K
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Hong Kong
Joined Sep 2010
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If you are new to DLG's, I would recommend starting with a bagged plane (or, a solid moulded plane), no matter how good you are with other RC disciplines.

Everyone makes mistakes when they're learning how to launch/etc, and the foam core wings just take a lot more beating than a hollow moulded wing. I've seen a lot of new DLG pilots tip strike, and..well....have fun repairing a hollow moulded wing after a tip strike! haha

Seriously though, I think you will have much more fun and much less frustration if you started off with a cheaper bagged/solid core wing. Some of those bagged planes are very high performance anyway, so you won't be missing too much. In fact, I doubt you will notice performance difference until you've flown DLGs for a while anyway (assuming it's a pretty nice bagged plane ) You can spend $300-$500 for a nice bagged plane, move up to a cool flashy solid/hollow moulded plane later.

Out of the ones you listed, the Polaris is is solid-core, and probably the best choice for you IMHO if you REALLLYYY need to get something expensive and high-performance.

Disser is a wing reinforcement method, using carbon tow placed diagonally across the wing to improve torsional stiffness while keeping the weight low.

D Box is a wing reinforcement method, typically a D-box wing will have carbon on the front 1/3 of the wing for better stiffness and torsional stiffness.

RDS is rotary drive system, really neat way of driving your flaperons as nothing sticks out in the airstream. Personally I like top-drive more.

LE is leading edge

HMS is high modulous *something*..can't remember exact wording...

Don't know GRP
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Old May 03, 2012, 03:58 PM
Duane
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No. VA
Joined Nov 2004
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GRP = Glass Reinforced Plastic, typically fiberglass/epoxy composite though it can be nylon or other plastics, as with propellors.
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Old May 03, 2012, 04:22 PM
Will fly for food
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Bellevue WA,
Joined Dec 2003
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The learning process of assembly of a DLG is enough to get a lower end model. Nothing worse than screwing up a high $$$$ ship due to inexperience when building.
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Old May 03, 2012, 04:36 PM
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Joined Jan 2008
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Burt:

You can always go to the Classifieds, but be prepared to move FAST if you see an attractive one.

Like Mr. Lee says, look for a bagged wing (Taboo, Predator, TopSky) to start, if you're looking for F3K-compliant.

If you're just looking to have fun, look at the Gambler, the DL-50 or Quik-Flik. Not F3K, but still a huge amount of fun for the dollar. Several guys around htese parts have them, and once the serious flying is over, out they come! Kits for each are no more than $100.

Yours, Greg
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Old May 03, 2012, 04:44 PM
Puddle Jumper
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San Diego
Joined Jul 2007
49 Posts
Hey guys,

I'm definitely not apposed to going with a lower-end model. I actually started looking at some of those, but they were all recommend against. I also don't want to be the guy who brings out the nice expensive Cadillac and crashes on the first flight.

I would like to hear some of your suggestions, please. Besides some of the competition grade, what do you recommend that will fly well enough, build somewhat easily, and get me flying sooner rather than later?

@ThomasLee: When you say bagger, I'm assuming you mean something you wouldn't mind making mistakes with? I do like the price range of $300-$500 much better for a starter.

Here are some of the others I found that might not pass for competition, but are very nice starters. Please feel free to amend.
Vandal
Blaster3
Elf
Gladiator II
Fireworks III Disser
Bob, from Soaring USA, told me that they are coming out with a DLG called the Dart with a kevlar molded foam core wing. Does anyone have more info on this?
TopSky 2.0

I'm sure the list could go on and on. Keep in mind that some of the birds in the list above were not recommended to get, so it does throw me for a loop. What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Burt
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Old May 03, 2012, 05:08 PM
Team Hong Kong F3K
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Hong Kong
Joined Sep 2010
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Hi Burt,

Bagged planes are made with a solid foam core (usually hot-wire cut), with skins applied over that and 'bagged' in a vacuum bag.
Moulded planes are typically hollow, and takes the shape of the mould rather than the foam core, and thus is more accurate. There are some really cool solid moulded stuff on the market now though.

Most of the planes in that list are hollow moulded and quite fragile.

I would recommend the following planes, in order of cost:

Predator 2 $240
Predator 2 Dbox $350
TopSky 2 super $320 (?)
Neos $399
Akcent 2 $475
Neos Dbox $499
Validol $595

Also, the Taboo GT and Vandal are great planes, I think you will need to look in classifieds for those though (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Though I am biased!
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Old May 03, 2012, 05:17 PM
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United States, MD, Baltimore
Joined Feb 2007
497 Posts
Don't forget acksent 2 or validol reasonably priced moldie with rugged foam core and excellent fligh characteristics.
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Old May 03, 2012, 05:18 PM
Team Hong Kong F3K
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Hong Kong
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You're right! I'll have to add those to the list
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Old May 03, 2012, 05:22 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Tehachapi
Joined Jun 2011
3,069 Posts
I'll second the solid core wing recommendation. "Bagged" and "molded" are different construction methods. Molded gliders are built just as the name implies -- in a mold. This guarantees the most accurate airfoil shape possible. Now there are two distinct types of molded planes: solid core and hollow molded. Solid core is done by cutting out a foam wing with a CNC router and placing it in the mold between the carbon/fibeglass skins. Hollow molded wings are made with the skins being a sandwich -- glass/carbon, then thin foam (~1mm), then another layer of glass on the inside (look at the pictures of the Blaster's construction HERE). They're hollow inside, which is why they are so much harder to repair. "Bagged" planes are made by cutting the wing out of foam (usually with a hotwire cutter), covering with the fiberglass/carbon, and then placed in a bag under high levels of vacuum to press the skin to the core while it cures. This is a much cheaper method of production, but results in a slightly less accurate wing. It's not hollow, though, making it easier to repair.

It takes time to get up to speed with the F3K jargon, but you'll get there. There are a number of fine planes you can choose from, and since you seem interested in something that you can learn on while still being competitive, I'll suggest the following:

Solid Core Molded:

Polaris (made by Momentum Models if I remember correctly) ~$1000 I think
Helios (made by krikkens and distributed by Wave Glider in the US) -$665
XXLite (same manufacturer/distributer as Helios) - $730
Validol

Bagged:

Neos (I'm pretty sure it's bagged)
One of Seba's (prsly on RCG) kits (plane has no name that I'm aware of, but I've seen these up close and they're fine workmanship)
Predator II (never seen one, but I've heard good things about them)

Brandon

P.S.: Welcome to the addiction!

Edit: inlcuded Validol, too. Didn't realize it was solid core.
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Old May 03, 2012, 05:36 PM
Puddle Jumper
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San Diego
Joined Jul 2007
49 Posts
Guys,

Thanks so much for all the information. It is a huge help, believe me. There is a lot of good information so far, and will refrain from commenting individually until I've soaked it in a little more, but off the top, I do remember looking at the Validol and being very impressed. I also like the looks of the Neos, and from what their website says, has a brand new version out.

Please keep the information coming.

Thanks,
Burt
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Old May 03, 2012, 06:34 PM
Will fly for food
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Bellevue WA,
Joined Dec 2003
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It will also take time on the sticks to learn what these DLG can do and more importantly what not to do. How do you fly in windy conditions? This is when 90% of the damage happens to DLG's. This is why you want a good inexpensive robust DLG. Just learning how to release smoothly without torquing on the launch peg takes some time when you start to really put the power to it. You don't want your peg ripped out of your steg. These lessons will be learned and the $$$$ to learn them is the decision. The Topsky 2 and Disser are very good for the AG series of DLG's.
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Old May 03, 2012, 07:09 PM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
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USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
6,570 Posts
Buy whatever gets you in the air quickly and fly fly fly fly fly. Worry about high performance and pretty later.

Used = cheap and fast.

Take it from a guy who spends HUNDREDS of hours making airplanes for other people... you'd rather be flying than building. As soon as you get your first one in the air, start building your second. This way you can take your time, do it right, and learn about construction and assembly WHILE you have a flyable airframe.
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Old May 03, 2012, 08:15 PM
Time for me to Fly...
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United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
8,206 Posts
Burt if you want to get your feet wet without breaking the bank take a look at this offer I made to another fellow that was refused.
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Old May 03, 2012, 11:08 PM
Puddle Jumper
*Centurion*'s Avatar
San Diego
Joined Jul 2007
49 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasLee View Post
Hi Burt,

Bagged planes are made with a solid foam core (usually hot-wire cut), with skins applied over that and 'bagged' in a vacuum bag.
Moulded planes are typically hollow, and takes the shape of the mould rather than the foam core, and thus is more accurate. There are some really cool solid moulded stuff on the market now though.

Most of the planes in that list are hollow moulded and quite fragile.

I would recommend the following planes, in order of cost:

Predator 2 $240
Predator 2 Dbox $350
TopSky 2 super $320 (?)
Neos $399
Akcent 2 $475
Neos Dbox $499
Validol $595

Also, the Taboo GT and Vandal are great planes, I think you will need to look in classifieds for those though (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Though I am biased!
What is really setting the high-performance gliders apart from something in the nice $500 solid core range?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasLee View Post
RDS is rotary drive system, really neat way of driving your flaperons as nothing sticks out in the airstream. Personally I like top-drive more.
Is it worth the extra money to have the RDS installed? Is this option usually available on most gliders? What are the negatives if this isn't an option, or I don't install it?
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