SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old May 03, 2012, 12:44 PM
Registered User
owlsabie's Avatar
South Africa
Joined Feb 2009
2,850 Posts
If I don't run out of time this year, I'm in with a Veron Bee Bug Mostly because I like the name
owlsabie is online now Find More Posts by owlsabie
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old May 03, 2012, 03:40 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Okay - if I can ever get off the internet, my 'entry' is the Performance Kits 'Bonnacon'.

Typical specs. 34" span, built around a Mills 75. I have an umpteenth copy of a PK kit plan - cannot make out the designer's name as all he left is a very flourished signature with no printed version.

The clever part - its a canard with a straight dihedralled rear wing with swept forward tips and an inverted gull dihedralled foreplane.

There's a pusher prop on the back end of a fuselage that terminates on the foreplane's TE and places the engine about atop the centre of graffiti. UC is four wheels - two at front ends of the twin booms, two on the back. Twin fins with no trim tabs are shown on the plan, but tiny 'elevons' shown on the tips of the rear wing - with a note saying they weren't fitted to the prototype.

The wing section is a horrible looking flat bottomed thing with a lot of spars for a 4.5" root chord, before taper sets in.

The main wheels are way ahead of the foreplane's LE, with a CG right on the rearmost point of the rear wing on its centreline. Wheels are nearly 7" ahead of the CG. Take-off will be fun, and there's not much to hold for a single handed hand-launch either. This suggests there may be some illegal fudging of the wheels fore and aft-ness...

RC fit suggests one servo driving both rudders, one or two servos driving ailerons on the rear wing and one servo driving elevators on the inverted gull/swept back foreplane. There will be a lot of either pushrods, snakes or servo extensions going everywhere. If we hadn't had 72 MHz radio marketted away from us, I'd be looking at two receivers! Everything I've read about canards suggests not messing with elevons and other fancy mixing of controls, and sticking to elevator(s) and ailerons.

At least the layout offers a good place to stick the battery right up in the fuselage nose area! If built at 'full size', there would be 'fudging' as the fuselage doesn't look big enough to take any battery of 'about the right size' I own. So I suspect 150% or maybe more will play an important part in this 'design'.

The model is intended to be built in one piece! Apart from wondering how many were built (and how many survived to teenage years, let alone maturity), that has to go! The family buggy is a Prius V (which, for regular Prius owners, only does around 42MPG ) and definitely makes a 200% Bonnacon at 64" span and 35" long a big no-no

Yes, I will do a socially acceptable build thread -but right now, I don't even have a publishable 3-view or GA drawing, let alone video with special effects and sound tracks . But first I have to replace my answer to Chicago's windiness. Her receiver browned out at 20 feet up and going pretty fast - cost, one fuselage, a 4S 3600 LiPo, 60A ESC, a receiver that still works but I don't trust and possibly a lovely AXI 2826.

Back with a new fread later, folks. Promise to shut up about this now until I have something worthwhile to go on.

D
Dereck is offline Find More Posts by Dereck
Reply With Quote
Old May 03, 2012, 04:07 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
4,793 Posts
Looking forward to that one Dereck. The Bonnacon was designed - as were all the PK models - by the magnificently eccentric O.F.W. Fisher who lived in a tower at Onchan on the Isle of Man. All of his models were quite distinctive, from the relatively conventional low aspect ratio Apex sport F/F/radio model to his later (unkitted) but very off the wall designs like the Noctule - a sort of scale bat! - which appeared as plans in various magazines. He had a whole series of tail-less models called Ionosphere, up to quite large ones with push-pull engines, but the kitted one was a small one called the Ion which I built for a Frog 80 and which flew very well indeed - that was the thing about his designs, even the more way out looking ones seemed to fly OK.

The only slight fly in the ointment is that I am not entirely sure that the Bonnacon ever saw the light of day as a Performance Kits KIT, I seem to have a sort of feeling it was published as a magazine plan. Can anyone (RFJ? He knows everything!) shed any more light on this. If it was not produced as a kit I'm afraid I may have to DQ it, as I have already told someone that the Tomboy doesn't qualify. Hope I am wrong here, and I do note that you say it was a kit plan, if it's marked as such that's good enough for me.
Sundancer is offline Find More Posts by Sundancer
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by Sundancer; May 03, 2012 at 04:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 03, 2012, 04:13 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
4,793 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by owlsabie View Post
If I don't run out of time this year, I'm in with a Veron Bee Bug Mostly because I like the name
Another blast from my past Owl - I had a couple, one with the intended E.D. Bee (hence the name) which was - well, sort of OK - and one with a Frog 150 which was an absolute blast. Both these were on wires of course, am I correct in assuming that you are proposing an electric R/C version. If so it should be an "interesting" performer!
Sundancer is offline Find More Posts by Sundancer
RCG Plus Member
Old May 03, 2012, 04:54 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer View Post
Looking forward to that one Dereck. The Bonnacon was designed - as were all the PK models - by the magnificently eccentric O.F.W. Fisher who lived in a tower at Onchan on the Isle of Man. All of his models were quite distinctive, from the relatively conventional low aspect ratio Apex sport F/F/radio model to his later (unkitted) but very off the wall designs like the Noctule - a sort of scale bat! - which appeared as plans in various magazines. He had a whole series of tail-less models called Ionosphere, up to quite large ones with push-pull engines, but the kitted one was a small one called the Ion which I built for a Frog 80 and which flew very well indeed - that was the thing about his designs, even the more way out looking ones seemed to fly OK.

The only slight fly in the ointment is that I am not entirely sure that the Bonnacon ever saw the light of day as a Performance Kits KIT, I seem to have a sort of feeling it was published as a magazine plan. Can anyone (RFJ? He knows everything!) shed any more light on this. If it was not produced as a kit I'm afraid I may have to DQ it, as I have already told someone that the Tomboy doesn't qualify. Hope I am wrong here, and I do note that you say it was a kit plan, if it's marked as such that's good enough for me.
Now there's a thought for an idle mind The plan has a small info box on its right hand side, about one third way up the plan. It gives the name and a plan number 'X-G6-308' if that helps. Nowhere does it mention a 'kit' as we understand a cardboard box full of mostly wooden parts, all of which bear some distant relationship to their needed shapes and sizes. Plus it does have pretty much all of the fuselage formers shown and enough of the ribs for a real builder to come up with the wings - which all suggests it's a building plan, as opposed to a kit plan.

If you DQ it, you will almost certainly miss my turning cartwheels in the BDF! I just put in my daily (well, nearly daily) walk and mulled it over some as I ambled along.

It could be a female canine of a job to get all the RC bits and bobs in and waggling while having the heavy bits bow down to the CG. Stripping it down for transport promises to be even more fun

The UC location suggests that ROG was never really contemplated. Despite now having the basis of a workable CAD plan, Bonnacon may slide, somewhat effortlessly, back into the 'maybe pending' corner of my hard drive...

Oh well, back to something with a boring old tailplane hanging out the back. Always wanted a Junior 60...

OTOH, if anyone this side of the pond has an 'Ion' plan lying around doing nothing

D
Dereck is offline Find More Posts by Dereck
Reply With Quote
Old May 03, 2012, 06:19 PM
RFJ
Registered User
RFJ's Avatar
Northern Ireland
Joined Dec 2004
1,613 Posts
This is Peter Fisher's Bonnacon. It was published as a plan in the August 1993 Aeromodeller. Very much doubt if it was ever kitted but, as Dereck says, research continues.

My own entry in the BritKit bash will be a Veron Phoenix, electrified into a vintage hot liner. Well, tepid liner perhaps - we shall see Kit was released in October 1960 so just makes it in.

Ray
RFJ is offline Find More Posts by RFJ
Last edited by RFJ; May 03, 2012 at 06:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 03, 2012, 08:26 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
All right, that and conversion issues put that plan back in the file.

Wild idea two. A few years back , my first ever successful flying model was a KK Phantom Mite. Guess what - I have plans. For the Phantom Mite, and its big sis, the Phantom. So, it's either an electric fly-by-wire or a 2X RC conversion.

Does that fit?

D
Dereck is offline Find More Posts by Dereck
Reply With Quote
Old May 04, 2012, 12:07 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
4,793 Posts
Yes indeed Dereck, the Phantom, either C/L original size or a radio scale up would be right in the spirit of the build off, I would love to see it. One word of warning if you go for the roundy-roundy option. Not having flown C/L for many a long year I tried it (with someone elses model) just before reaching retirement age and promptly fell over after 10 laps or so! So you might need the anti-dizzy pills!

Glad you were able to clear the Bonnacon question up Ray, I knew I could rely on you. Love the Phoenix idea, a very smooth looking model. BTW, it was (is) my intention that designs produced by kits by any of the listed manufacturers after 1960 would still be eligible - see first post, so the \phoenix would be OK even if a bit later.
Sundancer is offline Find More Posts by Sundancer
RCG Plus Member
Old May 04, 2012, 12:25 AM
Registered User
ColinNZ's Avatar
Auckland New Zealand
Joined Aug 2004
933 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dereck View Post
All right, that and conversion issues put that plan back in the file.

Wild idea two. A few years back , my first ever successful flying model was a KK Phantom Mite. Guess what - I have plans. For the Phantom Mite, and its big sis, the Phantom. So, it's either an electric fly-by-wire or a 2X RC conversion.

Does that fit?

D
The first model plane I ever saw was a C/L Phantom in 1958 powered by a Allbon Spitfire, about 2 years ago i acquired that very motor. You have my vote on the x2 RC conversion .

Colin.
ColinNZ is offline Find More Posts by ColinNZ
Reply With Quote
Old May 04, 2012, 06:25 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,640 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer View Post
One word of warning if you go for the roundy-roundy option. Not having flown C/L for many a long year I tried it (with someone elses model) just before reaching retirement age and promptly fell over after 10 laps or so! So you might need the anti-dizzy pills!
George, it may reassure you to know that this dizziness isn't entirely due to age, although advancing years probably aggravates the situation. A couple of years ago, my younger son came over from the UK, with a KK Champ that he'd built, powered by a DC Sabre (I had taught him to fly CL, with a Champ, in 1975)... Anyway, I probably underestimated the line length required (and my "paces" are probably shorter than they used to be...). I agreed to do the first flight, and a Champ with a 1.5cc engine is quite fast. Towards the end of the flight, I was aware of that I was getting very dizzy indeed, but I just managed to hang on until the fuel ran out. Of course, at the very instant the plane touched down, I fell flat on my back. This was just about on my 70th birthday, so I thought the dizziness was down to old age...
HOWEVER, my son then had a flight, and he experienced exactly the same symptoms, with exactly the same result, at only 45 y.o.!!! So, I think it's mainly due to "not being used to it". Another obvious point is that this situation is considerably relieved by being able to fly basic stunts (i.e. loops), with an appropriate model, obviously, it gives you a break from the round and round...
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old May 04, 2012, 09:10 AM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Have often wondered about the dangers of falling over dizzy after the first flight of a fly-by-wire session. It's been a while since I flew CL - Old Warden, circa 1990, with a Dmeco Twin on two Cox Golden Bee squealers - but I recall the first flight after a while would have that effect, and I was a mere 40-ish then.

Subsequent flights in a session felt much better after landing!

With the upsurge of ECL, there are plenty of timers around that replace the radio stuff in a CL model to control a regular ESC. Set your flight duration, push a button to turn the fan on and off you go.

My first Phantom Mite was, I still recall, somewhat 'bodged', painted in many coats of yellow dope and had a large lump of church roof wired under the crankcase of the DC Bantam glow lump to maintain some balance. On around 20 feet of thread lines, it would stay airborne for around 13 - 15 laps if I got the needle precisely on 'flat out'.

My 'schoolmate' who came along to launch got a good deal. He insisted that if he launched for me, he got to fly every other flight. On my model and my fuel...

That the Mite was staggering around 'just' above stalling speed probably explains why I was successful at flying it...

An E-Phantom, especially the Mite, would have to be built to a much lighter structure to fly well as ECL, I suspect.

Where are my phantom Phantom plans? Oh well, back into 'The Files'

D
Dereck is offline Find More Posts by Dereck
Reply With Quote
Old May 04, 2012, 11:43 AM
Registered User
owlsabie's Avatar
South Africa
Joined Feb 2009
2,850 Posts
Bee Bug

Hi there - if I get to it, the Bee Bug will be electric RC with ailerons and things. Also some simple u/c. I think it will look like a cross between a crop sprayer and a war bird (with a very short tail). Should be interesting to fly. . . its actually moving up the list as I think it could be built fairly quickly
owlsabie is online now Find More Posts by owlsabie
Reply With Quote
Old May 04, 2012, 01:12 PM
Registered User
marksherlock's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Essex
Joined Oct 2006
595 Posts
Dereck,
Either the Phantom or Phantom Mite will be a great choice.
I will watch with interest - ECL is, as yet, unexplored by me, so I have much to learn here!
Good luck!
Mark
marksherlock is offline Find More Posts by marksherlock
Reply With Quote
Old May 04, 2012, 01:16 PM
Registered User
marksherlock's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Essex
Joined Oct 2006
595 Posts
Mercury Skyjeep

I very much like the idea of building a Mercury Skyjeep (its been on my list for years)
It would need light wood and slightly less block wood than the original.
But with light weight rc and brushless power would look very nice!
Maybe its time to go for it - when the Venus is finished!!!!
marksherlock is offline Find More Posts by marksherlock
Reply With Quote
Old May 04, 2012, 04:35 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
4,793 Posts
The Skyjeep would make a cracking ER/C model. Get that Venus finished so we can see it fly and then get cracking - you have a full eight months this time!
Sundancer is offline Find More Posts by Sundancer
RCG Plus Member
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Contest Build off for FROG designs October 1st 2011 to April 30th 2012 Sundancer Vintage & Old-Timer Designs 237 Apr 23, 2013 03:29 PM
Build Log Frog Build Off Oct 2011-April 2012 - MAMBA Sundancer Vintage & Old-Timer Designs 104 Nov 26, 2012 07:57 AM
Discussion Frog Build Off Oct 2011-April 2012 - Vanda Mk. 2 vega Vintage & Old-Timer Designs 13 Apr 29, 2012 09:15 AM
Build Log Frog Build off Oct 2011 - April 2012 - WITCH II Sundancer Vintage & Old-Timer Designs 45 Mar 19, 2012 02:29 AM
Build Log FROG build-off Oct 2011 - April 2012; ZEPHYR Sundancer Vintage & Old-Timer Designs 75 Mar 09, 2012 12:49 PM