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Old May 03, 2012, 01:12 AM
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Enclosed steam plant considerations

Thanks for all the great info. I'll be building a test box with the same dimensions as my main cabin. I'll be able to take out some of the 32 windows and 4 doors' glazing to help airflow through the cabin. It has a volume of 2000 cubic inches. I think a small CPU cooling fan will do the trick. Cheap insurance anyway. I'll be insulating the walls and overhead deck in this space. That coupled with a fan should take care of overheating and gas accumulation. I'll be using butane fuel in a Macssteam 3.5" diameter boiler. Fire is a concern, so I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on this risk in a model steamboat. I guess if you build things right, it shouldn't be a problem. I ran a similar setup in another sternwheeler steamboat and never had a fire.

Mike
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Old May 03, 2012, 09:32 AM
Just call me "Mo"
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Get a SUPER SOAKER!!! and don't run outside your range
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Old May 03, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Your boilers gas burner will already provide the required air flow. Since it takes air in the front of the burner and expells the burnt gasses out the stack you already have airflow throught the boat interior. You just need to have some windows or doors open so air can flow in. If your boiler is insulated then there is little need for additional shielding of the boat interior. I have saito steam plants with no insulation and they do fine.
Thanks
Steve
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Old May 03, 2012, 02:38 PM
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Mike,
Must say that I am 100% in agreement with Steve, with all of that space in the superstructure you could fly your C/nook in it.
With a Maccsteam boiler and burner you will have no problem with overheating or burning your superstructure nor will you have spilled gas as it's virtually a closed circuit.
Lag the boiler with ceramic cloth and ether timber plank it, or as I prefer to cover the cloth with tinplate or light Ali.
With spilled L.P.G you don't get a fire but if you have any spillage and electric motors, say a fan or an electric driven feed pump one spark will give you an almighty BANG.
Nether my tug or a Clyde Puffer that I built had any protection underneath the superstructure and never suffered any burning of the timber.

George.
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Old May 03, 2012, 03:36 PM
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Great Advice on Air Circulation in Boiler Room

I'll keep it simple - no blower fan, lag the boiler, and open up some windows forward to help with circulation. I would like to include a feed water pump and water sensor to extend run time and prevent running the boiler dry. Also looking at a boiler pressure regulator too.

Any suggestions on R/Cing the 4 cylinder drain valves to prevent hydrolock? Is it necessary? I don't want to hand crank the paddlewheel to remove condensate in the engine and would rather be able to open those valves for a few revolutions at startup, then close them once drained. I'll have plenty of channels to do this. All I'll need is an on/off servo throw.

Mike
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Old May 03, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hookpilot View Post
I'll keep it simple - no blower fan, lag the boiler, and open up some windows forward to help with circulation. I would like to include a feed water pump and water sensor to extend run time and prevent running the boiler dry. Also looking at a boiler pressure regulator too.

Any suggestions on R/Cing the 4 cylinder drain valves to prevent hydrolock? Is it necessary? I don't want to hand crank the paddle wheel to remove condensate in the engine and would rather be able to open those valves for a few revolutions at start up, then close them once drained. I'll have plenty of channels to do this. All I'll need is an on/off servo throw.

Mike
Mike,
What type of engine , have I missed it, any pics.
George.
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Old May 04, 2012, 12:16 AM
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Reply to George-Type of engine

Hi George:
The build has started on the Preston's steam plant. It will be a 2-stroke, fixed cut-off long throw scale model of Preston's actual Gillette & Eaton steam engine. Trips up to Anacortes, WA have been made to photograph, study and measure W.T. Preston's engine and boiler in preparation for this part of the build. I have enlarged the bore bigger than scale to facilitate slow speed operation. Calculations have been made to operate the engine at a maximum of 40-psig giving me a max rotational speed of 110rpm. At max speed, the engine will need about 330 cu-in of steam per minute. The engine will have a bore of .625" (5/8") and stroke of 2.25", X 2, which is scale. I kept the stroke scale so that the cranks will be the proper size out on the paddlewheel. Pitman arms will be directly connected via cross heads to the pistons and paddle cranks. eccentrics on the paddle shaft will control valve action through reversing gear. We have the CAD drawings completed and they are being fed to a 3D printer to make the prototype parts. These plastic parts will then be used to make highly accurate sand casting molds and from that, the iron castings. Each cylinder will have two servo operated drain valves at either end.

Mike in Edmonds
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Old May 04, 2012, 12:34 AM
P31
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Very nice Mike
Gary
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Old May 04, 2012, 12:49 AM
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Response- Gary

Thanks. I'm glad I didn't go with electric propulsion. This will be the model's crowning glory. Not just a live steam engine, but a scale model of W.T. Preston's engine. After watching two of our club members run their steam launches at the Seattle Yacht Club Opening Day festivities yesterday, I was pleased to hear people stopping by being very impressed with the steam boats. More to come...

Mike
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Old May 04, 2012, 08:03 AM
P31
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I'll have to get up there to one you clubs outings, There's nothing but speed down here. I'll be watching.
Gary
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Old May 04, 2012, 10:08 AM
Just call me "Mo"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hookpilot View Post
Thanks. I'm glad I didn't go with electric propulsion. This will be the model's crowning glory. Not just a live steam engine, but a scale model of W.T. Preston's engine. After watching two of our club members run their steam launches at the Seattle Yacht Club Opening Day festivities yesterday, I was pleased to hear people stopping by being very impressed with the steam boats. More to come...

Mike
Good for you!!

Lee showed me his acquired Topaz!! Spectacular boat to have and run!! I will be up for the club regatta on June 16..come hell or high water..I look forward to meeting you!!

Steaming has such different challenges -- that is what makes it so engaging and fun for me
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Old May 04, 2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by pamela31 View Post
I'll have to get up there to one you clubs outings, There's nothing but speed down here. I'll be watching.
Gary
Gary:
We'd love to have you visit. We meet every Thursday morning from 10am to 11:30am for a "tech talk" coffee at Galaxy Hobby in Lynnwood. We also have our monthly club meetings the first Thursday of the month at the same location, 7pm to 9pm. Our club website also lists our Fun Floats. They are usually at Bellevue City Park pond. Come on up...

Mike in Edmonds
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Old May 04, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Any suggestions on R/Cing the 4 cylinder drain valves to prevent hydrolock? Is it necessary? I don't want to hand crank the paddlewheel to remove condensate in the engine and would rather be able to open those valves for a few revolutions at startup, then close them once drained. I'll have plenty of channels to do this. All I'll need is an on/off servo throw.

Mike[/QUOTE]

Mike,
The engine in my tug is a Stuart D10 and has no condensate drain valves.
I can start it in 2- ways.
1- Feed in steam and turn the prop over until it starts and the condensate is cleared.
2- The Stevenson reverse gear is connected to a 15kg pull servo which is set at mid point, to start I feed in steam and move the arm back and forth which twitches the engine back and forth, clears the condensate and away it goes with no need to turn over the prop.

You have the advantage of your engine being a piston valve which if the reverse lever is connected the same way as mine you will clear the condensate without turning the paddle wheel over by hand.

It may be easier to sacrifice exact scale and make a reversing valve that can ether direct the steam to the engine for forward motion or switch over so that the steam enters the exhaust and will drive it in reverse, but then you may want to be as near to scale as possible.

Wilesco steam engines are all piston valves and like all piston valve model engines eventually leak steam.

Here are some pics of a piston valve twin that I built some years ago and has no drain valves, to prevent steam leakage from the valve I made a screwed plug for the top and extended the valve box at the bottom to allow a silicone 'O' ring on the valve rod to be installed which stopped any leaks and it had a reversing valve to switch the steam.

Also a Saito single cylinder that I converted to run ether way with a reversing valve, this type of valve also allows speed control of the engine.

Hope this helps, if I am not too clear on my explanation don't hesitate to ask.

George.
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Old May 04, 2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogogear View Post
Get a SUPER SOAKER!!! and don't run outside your range
Mo ,
While I am on line, what is a SUPER SOAKER ?

Thanks for the compliment on my old lady ( the tug not her indoors )
I am in the process of running in the new engine in between building a Stuart LAUNCH ENGINE , trying to keep the garden tidy and running back and forth to hospital with my DUKE OF ARGYLLS

George.
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Old May 04, 2012, 03:56 PM
I SEE NO SHIPS
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Joined Feb 2007
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Ooyah ! I hope your Nobbys heal up !
You wanaa get a rubber ring !
Is that why you are called Ooyah ?
And so on and so forth .
Sorry George , I think I have got too much nicotine in this electronic ciggy (trying to quit the burny types ) .
Dunc2504
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