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Old Nov 22, 2012, 01:47 PM
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individual competitors permitted

Dear all,

the bulletin now offers an interesting aspect:

• Up to three (3) individual or four (4) individual competitors, provided the fourth is a junior, as defined by FAI S/C Sec 4 Volume ABR B.3.4. are invited to participate per every nation not sending a National Team, including their helpers.

Results of individual pilots will not be included in the World Championship ranking.

This is valid up to a total number of 80 pilots.

Best reagrds,

Karl-Ernst
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 03:02 PM
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Hi all,

I see in the recent bulletin that you need national identification mark on models.
But when I read FAI ABR page 50 § b.17.6 :
http://www.fai.org/component/phocado...94:sc4volabr12

it's written "except for indoor and scale model aircraft.

So I don't understand if our light models will have some big and heavy stickers on them.

Loic
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 07:10 PM
I don't want to "Switch Now"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsky View Post
Hi all,

I see in the recent bulletin that you need national identification mark on models.
But when I read FAI ABR page 50 § b.17.6 :
http://www.fai.org/component/phocado...94:sc4volabr12

it's written "except for indoor and scale model aircraft.

So I don't understand if our light models will have some big and heavy stickers on them.

Loic
I have flown in quite a few W/C (in other classes), and you can make your own stickers, including scaled down versions.
We usually print them on clear label stock(Fascal) in a laser printer. Here is an example in a pdf, 1:1 scale.

IIRC the original was downloaded from the FAI web site.

In addition to the sticker you need your national ID number somewhere on the model, but that can simply be drawn on with magic marker.

Typically in processing they will apply another small sticker partly over yours as proof that the model has been processed.
I have also seen them use ink stamps or initial them.

Pat MacKenzie
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 01:10 AM
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53859 Niederkassel, Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsky View Post
Hi all,

I see in the recent bulletin that you need national identification mark on models.
But when I read FAI ABR page 50 § b.17.6 :
http://www.fai.org/component/phocado...94:sc4volabr12

it's written "except for indoor and scale model aircraft.

So I don't understand if our light models will have some big and heavy stickers on them.

Loic
Hi Loic,

you are looking the 2012 Edition of the Sporting Code. Obviously there will be some changes in the 2013 version:

Quote:
Annex 1 of Bulletin 1 World Championship for Aerobatic Model Aircraft F3P 2013 Coburg/Germany
The newly modified paragraph B.17.6. (SC 4 Vol ABR) demands that each model aircraft processed for International Competitions must carry
• The national identification mark (abbreviation of the IOC) followed by the FAI licence number, figures and numbers at least 25 mm high and at least once on each model.
• A model identification code to be different for each nominated model aircraft on each main part of the model (if detachable), at least 10 mm high and clearly visible.
This identification code shall be recorded on the score card and – for International Championships – on the Model Aircraft Specification Certificate. That is provided by the FAI and issued by the NAC while processing every model aircraft to be entered into these championships.
A sticker, also provided by the FAI (or marking to the pattern of the sticker) shall appear on each model aircraft. Examples of how to fill out and handle the Model Aircraft Specification Certificate and sticker are shown in Annexes B.1.a and B.1.b (SC4 Vol ABR 2013 Edition).
Model aircraft not properly processed by their NAC, with FAI certificates and stickers, must be processed by the organiser at a cost of 8 Euro for each model.
You may want to wait and see whether the "sticker" still needs to be size 65mm x 34mm in the 2013 Edition.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 01:23 AM
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53859 Niederkassel, Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmackenzie View Post
I have flown in quite a few W/C (in other classes), and you can make your own stickers, including scaled down versions.
We usually print them on clear label stock(Fascal) in a laser printer. ...
Hi Pat,

a sticker of 65x34mm made from Fascal will weigh approx. 0.24g.

While this is completely negligible for an F3A or F3B model, it is quite a lot considering the efforts F3P pilots go through in order to reduce the weight of their models.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 23, 2012, 02:13 AM
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We worry a bit about weight in F3K

I just weighed a 24cm x 7cm piece of Fascal and it was 1 gram.
So this sticker at ~ 2.4 x 4 cm weighs less than .1 gram. If that still worries you, you could always cut the foam away underneath it, might end up lighter

Note in the rule it says "or marking to the pattern of the sticker", so a reduced scale or even a hand drawn version is acceptable.

Hopefully those doing the processing will understand the goal: to ensure compliance with relevant rules regarding safety, model eligibility, etc.
If they start measuring the size of FAI stickers then they have lost sight of what their job is.

The other funny part about the rule is the section about models being pre-processed by their NAC. I can guarantee you that this part is never followed.
Unless you live in Luxembourg and can drive across town to get your model inspected geography precludes it. Instead model specification books are generally pre-stamped, then filled out by the competitor. Often in line at processing.
Since the rules for F3P models are pretty short there won't be much to fill out in the book anyway.


Pat MacKenzie
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:56 AM
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Hi Karl-Ernst ,

I post here my questions because it's could be interest others competitor :
- How will official training be organized ? Simple timekeeper or precise schedule for each pilots ? (have we to be at exactly 9AM on saturday to have a maximum of training flights ?)
- Will the arena be opened for practice on sunday ? nothing is written for this on the planning.

Loïc
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 10:37 AM
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Training, and Schedule

Hello everybody, hello Loic,

thank you very much for your interest and plenty of questions. There is still a lot of work to do so. Some things are not fixed yet.

Due to the final number of competitors is not clear, the schedule still is provisionell. There will be other Bulletins where we will fix it.

In fact we will try to use every available minute in the Hall for practice. The place is too amazing. My actual idea for Saturday is a cue up like practised plenty times.

At the pilots questionaire (also still not finished) we will askeverybody for estimated time of arrival and scheduled availibility for training flights. Migth be that we will finally have official training times for each team even on saturday.

What would you prefer?

We will see.

With my very best personal regards,

Karl-Ernst
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 02:39 AM
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Thanks Karl-Ernst for your plenty of answers

I totally agree with you to use every available minute in the Hall for practice.

Regarding schedule of trainings, it could be a lot of work and a lot of problem if somebody is late for his arrival.
I always do and recommand a simple timekeeper (you know that @ IITOP) because :
- Pilots who wants to fly a lot have just have to be here early
- No organisation required, just put the timer on when competition is off
- Pilots are always fair play and I never seen any problem with that.

To avoid too long queue, you can replace planes by simple tickets with number or name.
For a all day training, a timekeeper with 3 or 4 minutes is the best choice for me.

but tell us before the D day, we don't want to wake up at 7 am to see that we cannot fly before 12 .

Loïc
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 06:09 AM
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Hi,
I agree with Isky. We must optimize the use of the hall. Everysecond someone is not flying is a wasted second.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 03:00 PM
Janne Lappi, F3A Team Finland
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Helsinki, Finland
Joined Sep 2008
129 Posts
Hi German guys,

do you know any car rental company where we could rent a cargovan which will be available at Frankfurt airport? Could you please link an address to the website of the company? There are no cargovans available in normal car rentals like Hertz etc.

Karl-Ernst, are the FAI licences required for team managers, too?

Looking forward to a great competition, only two months left!

Best regards,
Janne Lappi
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 04:12 PM
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FAI Lizens

Hello Janne,

yes FAI-license is mandatory also for the team manager but not for helper ...
regarding rental of cargovans. I think you should contact the rental companys. maybe they can bring you to another place where you can pick up their cargovans or they might have one avaiable upon request. Most of them also have cargovans available but maybe not direct at the airport.

Best regards & good luck

Karl-Ernst
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 02:46 AM
Janne Lappi, F3A Team Finland
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Helsinki, Finland
Joined Sep 2008
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Hi, thank you. What is the difference between helper and supporter? In your bulletin, the descriptions are identical, only the prices are different.

We need to get a cargovan at the Frankfurt airport because we have 6-7 big airplane boxes with us. We have tried to find vans in many websites of the rental companys but with no result. It is very difficult to get one, last year when we visited IITOP (France) it was a real problem because the officers in rental companies don't know anything else than what have been written on their website... If someone in Germany knows a good way to get a cargovan at Frankfurt airport, please tell us.

Regards,
Janne
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 09:32 AM
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Cargovan Truckrental

Hallo Janne,

as already mentioned above: all these companies have transporter available. The only problem: not at the airport. If you give them a call by phone they have more detailed information. As i have been told by phone a ford transit (9 seats) or mercedes vito is available at budget (but not listed at the internet).
If you choose another location of the rental company at Frankfurt (not at the airport) they offer trucks up to 12 tons.
These trucks have not too much seats for passengers ... so an additional car might be needed for the people.
  • Maybe you can rent a car at the airport or take a taxi to the next rental station outside- For www.sixt.de it is "Frankfurt Höchst" only 5 km to go from the airport
  • pick up the transporter of your choice
  • go back to the airport and pick up your luggage and planes.

The same vice versa at leaving.

Sorry not the easiest way but your needs are also not very common for an airport rental station where usually people arrive with less than 20kg luggage in a view bags.

If you or anybody else from a different country needs more support please send me an e-mail to f3p@indoor-rc.de and tell me your exact needs: which car, how many persons, additional car needed,... and we will try to find an arrangement.


So good luck.

Best regards,

Karl-Ernst
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 03:44 PM
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it seems there are 2 websites ?

what's the official website ?

www.indoor-rc.de
www.indoorwm.de

I guess the second one ?
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