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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:37 AM
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Jurgen Heilig's Avatar
53859 Niederkassel, Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolas pietu View Post
The french F3P commission made a proposal :
The top 25% (twenty five percent) of the classified pilots with a minimum of ten (10) will have three (3) additional flights.
Why not adopt existing F3A rules? 1/3 (33%) will get three more flights and the top ten will be faced with known and unknown sequences?

Jürgen
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 08:27 AM
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Because it’s lot of work and currently only the France and M. Ramel wrote proposals.
Unfortunately with FAI, we rarely heard and yet we have a lot of experience in F3P (lot of big contest, many pilots (151 last year) and the success of the FAI contest IITOP).

So write a FAI Sporting Code with unknown is complex and probably with no result.

33% it is for ½ finals in F3A ?
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolas pietu View Post
Because it’s lot of work ...
So write a FAI Sporting Code with unknown is complex and probably with no result.

33% it is for ½ finals in F3A ?
A lot of work should not be a "show-stopper".

I have been writing and using Unknown Sequences since 2009 for the Open German Indoor Aerobatics Championships and this year for the EIAC as well.

In my experience - and I am running F3P competitions since 2003 - Unknowns are the way to go (as proven by many other aerobatics competition classes).

Indeed, 33% is for semi-finals, which we don't have in F3P (yet?).

I agree, France also has a lot of experience in Indoor Aerobatics Competitions, and at the end of the "Era of Carvin", there were plans for Unknowns as well.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:26 PM
Janne Lappi, F3A Team Finland
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Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Why not adopt existing F3A rules? 1/3 (33%) will get three more flights and the top ten will be faced with known and unknown sequences?

Jürgen
Yes, this would be the way to go in my opinion. In this question I don't see any difference between F3A or F3P. This system would arrange the pilots in right order on the total results.

By the way, is it possible to modify the rules? I have always thought that official World Champs must follow the existing FAI rules.

Janne
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JanneL View Post
...
By the way, is it possible to modify the rules? I have always thought that official World Champs must follow the existing FAI rules.

Janne
Of course those rules are not cast in concrete. There are quite a few changes every year, not to mention changes in sequences and if safety is concerned, rules can even be changed during a competition.

Every NAC can make recommendations/suggestions/propasals etc. at the FAI/CIAM meetings.

The FAI Sporting Code is usually only valid for one year, starting January 1st. This is a bit unfortunate for F3P, as the Indoor season usually starts at the end of a year, running well into the following year ... and in between, there might be changes.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:58 PM
Janne Lappi, F3A Team Finland
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I wrote a bit unclearly. I meant that is it possible to change anything for this WC which will be already after a couple months. Of course every year there are some changes.

You are right, that's actually a bit nasty if some changes appear during the season just before big contests and all the people have been practising with the old regulations.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JanneL View Post
...
You are right, that's actually a bit nasty if some changes appear during the season just before big contests and all the people have been practising with the old regulations.
Well, from 2012 to 2013 there shouldn't be any big surprises, as the sequences are frozen. Proposals for 2014/15 should however been submitted and will be decided on during the CIAM annual meeting in April 2013.

Any changes will then take place right within the 2013/14 Indoor season.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 10:44 AM
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Unknowns for F3P / changes in rules for WC

regarding unknowns there will be a lot of work to do to get the figure catalog adopted for F3P, but in my opinion ther will be no way without unknown in the future ...

When this will take place is pending on all of us all over the world, that support.

Actual we (from the DAeC where Jürgen Heilig is no part of it) are preparing the WC and are very busy on this. After the WC is due we will think about further proposals.

After the experience of the first WC there might be some things necessary to change or in best case everything is well designed in the FAI-Rules and nothing regarding the WC-Competition rules is need to be changed. But all this will take place after the WC!

Bulletin 1 for the WC is actual under approval and as soon as it is approved it is spread over the FAI to the NAC's that are linked to the FAI.

Best regards,

Karl-Ernst Overdick
DAeC (which is Member of the FAI) F3P Referee
WM 2013 Event- and Organization Director on behalf of the Aeromodelling Commission of the DAeC

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl_f3p_GER View Post
regarding unknowns there will be a lot of work to do to get the figure catalog adopted for F3P, but in my opinion ther will be no way without unknown in the future ...
Hi Karl-Ernst,

at least you are agreeing to what I have been doing for the last three years, but then this is nothing new. The DMFV has always been ahead of the DAeC at least a couple of years.

And please don't get me wrong. I am looking forward to the F3P World Championship as well.

Jürgen

P.S.: Although not being member of the DAeC, I am very knowledgeable regarding FAI rules and the Sporting Code, especially regarding F3P, because the DMFV promoted Indoor Aerobatics as a class right from the beginning.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:58 PM
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Hello Jürgen,

don't get me wrong . I'm looking forward seeing you in Coburg and also at any other place / contest anytime.

My small remark was just in order to make sure, that nobody will blame us for anything written by third persons from Germany not officially involved in the WC competition. I personally respect your experince in F3P and also your big support for this class.

Unknowns have a long history in model aircraft competitions. It is no question about following the ideas of the DMFV. The history of model aircraft competitions by DAeC and FAI is much longer than the DMFV exists and even the usage of unknown has a longer history than the usage at Indoor Competitions at the DMFV. But I will not keep on kidding ...

Everybody who is successfully supporting / organizing Model Aircraft activities or competitions is doing a perfect job for all of us.

with my very best personal regards,

Karl-Ernst
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl_f3p_GER View Post
...
My small remark was just in order to make sure, that nobody will blame us for anything written by third persons from Germany not officially involved in the WC competition. ...
Well, I am sure that the users of this discussion forum don't mind who provides them with answers to their questions - as long as the answers are correct.

Jürgen
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:29 PM
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Canada, QC, Laval
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Hi guys,

Any recommendations for the hotel from the list on the bulletin ? Is there one were most people will be going ?

Thanks

Xavier
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
A lot of work should not be a "show-stopper".
France proposed the unknowns with a figure catalog suitable for F3P but the FAI did not validated (in 2007 but I'm not sure).

I agree with Karl: there will be no way without unknown in the future.

If the F3P committees, German and French work together maybe we will succeed.
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 02:44 PM
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Bulletin 1 officially released

now it is done. Bulletin 1 is released, including the preliminary entry form. You can find it at:

http://www.indoor-rc.de

or in the attachment.

Best regards,

Karl-Ernst
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 03:01 PM
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recommendations for the hotel from the list on the bulletin ...

Hi Xavier,

german team booked at "Morgenthum" (not listed but also a familiar, countrified and inexpensive hotel with a very good kitchen very close to the hall - tested already last year during german championship)

Landgasthof Morgenthum
Lauterbergstr. 2
96487 Dörfles-Esbach
Tel:09561/54259
Fax:09561/99442
Kontakt: info@landgasthof-morgenthum.de
//http://www.landgasthof-morgenthum.de/

also Braugasthof Grosch (Brewery inside the Hotel) offers a special deal:

"Special deal" for the World Championship

Staying in "Braugasthof Grosch", you can experience a hospitality that has grown in a family tradidion for nearly 600 years. You can enjoy a wide selection of various typical Franconian and seasonal dishes or relax with a cold beer from their own(!) brewery. The new ‘Brauhotel’, classified as category ***S hotel, was re-opened in 2011.

"Special deal" nightly room rates for the World Championship:

Single room, bed&breakfast 69.00 €

Double room, bed&breakfast 99.00 €

Extra bed for minors +25.00 €

Info and bookings http://www.der-grosch.de/



People that rested their last year still remember the tasty beer ...

Maybe other teams can tell about thier planings.

best regards,

Karl
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