Originally Posted by AIR SALLY

the wing cut the weeds ......good test for the retacts and struts .....better let sean get some stick time soon.

I know...
Sean do better landing than I do....LOL.
He took off yesterday with his # 1 trainer start doing knife edge right after took off.
I can't do that yet.

Originally Posted by Tamjets

I know...
Sean do better landing than I do....LOL.
He took off yesterday with his # 1 trainer start doing knife edge right after took off.
I can't do that yet.

Sean does not have a hangover like Daddy!! Thats why he flies better!!

is he still flying the F-86 ?

Pilot training not needed for RC. Some guys just walk onto the field, grab the transmitter, and teach themself real fast. Most need to learn at a much slower pace and they also need to analyze what they did wrong. Pilot training helps in that area.

For me it was easy to see what went wrong, now I will use that and try to avoid that situation myself. Sorry about the losses but those experiences are helping the rest of us slow learners know the issues and what to watch out for.

Originally Posted by 420flyboy

I've been flying jets for a year now , no pilot training . I've never flown in my life until then , tried other planes , but couldn't fly until I tried edf's. Got a habu 32 after flying a foam habu for a month , got this jet 5 months later.

I've got to say that I find this plane very enjoyable , haven't had a problem and it slows down nicely.

Biggest thing to remember is this is not a sport jet , you want the habu 32 , buy it

Ow, two more flight reports, two more crashes. From the looks of the video, it apears that the pilot let the wings roll past 90 degrees while pulling on the elevator. This is not a good idea with this plane, especialy when not up to full speed yet. I can see how easily this can happen though. As I have said before, the ailerons feel very dull at the recommended settings, much more so at speeds under 100mph. If you are gaining speed, the ailerons will become more effective, and it is easy to roll too far. The elevator being a full flying stabulator has its own quirks. When I look at the throws on the ground they look huge. I thought they would be way too much. However, I find that in a turn, at first the plane does not feel like it is comming around. Then the elevator digs in and it comes around nicely. I have ended up with the stock elevator throws in my setup, and they seem to work well.

I think it is time for a moral booster for all of us E-Flight F4 fans. Here is a nice little video of a sponsored HH pilot flying the F4 at an event. This video is pretty representative of my flying experience with the F4. Except of course, I have yet to get as low, and have never gotten near 149mph. LOL! But watch the take off, turns, and landings. The take off was a gradual gentle climb into the pattern. He waited until he had plenty of speed prior to rotation. In the turns he barely exceeded 45 degrees of bank, and pulled a nice smooth radius. On landing he used power all of the way in. He kept the plane flying in its envelope.

Make sure you watch it full screen. Enjoy!

E-flite Phantom at Ejets 2011 (3 min 46 sec)

Thanks Steve, this thread needed that! I was just in the garage working on the Phantom. The design, fit and finish of this ARF are really exquisite! I am enjoying very much putting the precious few pieces together that they left for us to assemble. While it sucks to read about the mishaps, for those still considering this model I'd like to say that what comes out of the box is a real treat. Seeing the end result in the video is also a treat. That said, I'm taking my time, enjoying the build and Tam's mods, just in case I too buy the farm (for my Phantom) someday soon LOL!

Sent you a pm Tam!
I fear this thread will become a crashfest.
I've thought about my crash and read up on real F-4s. This F-4 behaves just like a real one does.
I had too much elevator movement. I've never used dual rates before, relying instead on small stick movements and 10-25% expo on all my edfs, this jet bit me. My fault, lesson learned.
So we should all fly with elevator on low rates only, but is low rate elevator enough for all phases of a flight like takeoffs, landings, flaps etc?
I also want to mod the flaps into ailerons instead.
It really needs more aileron and Herb posted my no flaps landing video, Flaps are cool but I don't need them at my field.

Nice vid there!

My wife just purchased it as 1 yr wedding anniversary gift for me, but after seeing these crashes and me having 3 yrs exp. I'm second guessing this plane as guys that have more exp. are having trouble flying it. I dont know I may return it as rather than it sitting in the closet for awhile. Hmmmm...

This was my 3rd flight , great plane , don't give up on it

Eflite F4 Phantom Jetfan80 (3 min 53 sec)

The question is - for anyone who is going to take the sticks on this or any model F4 - are we willing to fly it as God and man intended it to be flown, as the Phantom that Was? By design, it was a fighter-bomber and as I recall the first fighter with a "stand-off" weapon system in the Sparrow missile. Back then, the idea was to save our precious pilots from having to engage at close range dogfights by providing them with radar-guided missiles to intercept a target at a safe distance. This of course ran afoul the rules of engagement (ROE) in the conflict of that era and that capability did not shine as intended. That said, the F4 was never intended to fly "up close and personal" as a dogfighter (think how most fly foamy EDFs today). IF I remember my history correctly here, it may help others inform either their buying decision or flying style, if you get my drift here. Perhaps one of the Phantom drivers or crew can comment or correct if they haven't left this thread in frustration LOL.

Thanks Steve and Tam, I really appreciate everyones input. I just don't want her to go down again, then I will be really bummed.

Originally Posted by bmiller

Sent you a pm Tam!
I fear this thread will become a crashfest.
I've thought about my crash and read up on real F-4s. This F-4 behaves just like a real one does.
I had too much elevator movement. I've never used dual rates before, relying instead on small stick movements and 10-25% expo on all my edfs, this jet bit me. My fault, lesson learned.
So we should all fly with elevator on low rates only, but is low rate elevator enough for all phases of a flight like takeoffs, landings, flaps etc?
I also want to mod the flaps into ailerons instead.
It really needs more aileron and Herb posted my no flaps landing video, Flaps are cool but I don't need them at my field.

Nice vid there!

I still got the fuse.
This weeken BW run. I plant to be there friday night with my trailer.
If you come up saturday doing some flying and pick the fuse. The shipping cost at least paid for the fuel.
Let me know. I can ship the fuse tomorrow Fed-Ex.

Originally Posted by stvinvegas

Thanks Steve and Tam, I really appreciate everyones input. I just don't want her to go down again, then I will be really bummed.

No problem....just got to set her up right and fly it like the Phantom.

what are you preferring Tam P20 f4 or P20 habu32 or is it just nice to fly something different

Originally Posted by swps

I lost my F-4 over the weekend too. I would not say that I am an inexperience pilot(been flying 24 years) and certainly not with the F-4 (this is my 3rd) and other scale-like Jet airframes. I just don't think this is a very good flying plane.

The plane flew fine fast and straight and looks amazing. It sounded good too. I'd say it has plenty of power on stock and take off roll is less than the Habu 32, but as soon as it gets dirty (gear and flaps down) it becomes a very different animal. It becomes very difficult to handle and doesn't act at all like it does clean. Sure you expect that to an extent with any plane but not this dramatic of a change. I thought I was tail heavy on the first flight, so I shifted the COG forward to 153mm and it was better dirty but still not good. I would say this plane was borderline uncontrollable dirty. After the maiden I made sure to retract the gear quickly after take off, so I was clean pretty quickly and I have to say I liked the way it flew fast.

I lost mine when I put full flaps down and gear down to see if I could get used to the handling and work the gremlins out as the previous flights have been a handful on final and landing. The plane just would not turn. Best description is it became sluggish on the ailerons and super pitch sensitive. Before I knew it it had lost considerable altitude and was headed for some homes. I didn't want to stall it so I was easy on the elevator but it too wasn't responding well and wouldn't give me any altitude it would just nose up like it was tail heavy. I retracted the gear thinking that was the issue, put it to full throttle but still no real improvement. I started retracting the flaps but it was too late at the point. I cut the throttle and watched from a very far distance as it hit the roof of a house!

Fortunately, no damage to the house or anything around. The owner of the house was very understanding as well. The plane did not fare so well. Plane broke in two in front of the ducts, both ducts were thrown along with the batteries and both hatches and one wing came off the plane, the other had the tip crushed. I only lost 2 servos and the airframe.

I will not be getting another one of these. I just don't think they got all the kinks worked out (Hence the delays?), too bad too as it was a very good looking plane. I already sold the guts to a bud for his Habu 32.

I hope everyone else has better luck with theirs.

This is much closer to what happened to us. It felt tail heavy and we had no control and it went down just like this.

We fly the Hobby Lobby F/A 18 which also has a full flying elevator and have never had any problems.

On our second attempt we are going to take off with no Flaps and make her a bit more nose heavy 150mm and get the gear up as soon as poss.