HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old May 21, 2012, 02:26 PM
Fly More Crash Less
AZAerobat's Avatar
United States, AZ, Prescott
Joined Sep 2007
1,354 Posts
Video of my buddies maiden and crash of his F-4 Phantom this morning. The crash was from pilot error not mechanical error. It was a very tough loss for my friend and the pilot felt really bad but it is part of our hobby.

Eflite F-4 Phantom 32 Maiden and Fiery Crash (2 min 48 sec)
AZAerobat is offline Find More Posts by AZAerobat
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old May 21, 2012, 02:41 PM
Advocating for RC Aviation
USA, NJ, Phillipsburg
Joined Jul 2010
1,390 Posts
That sucks, sorry for the loss. I'm trying to understand the error, was the last turn too tight? Accelerated or high speed stall? Or was it something else others can avoid? It takes guts to post these crash stories and it helps others learn how to fly these scale jets so thanks again for sharing.
danamania is offline Find More Posts by danamania
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 03:16 PM
Registered User
Tamjets's Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jun 2006
5,453 Posts
Sorry to hear the crash.....
Phantom require nose up and add some power on the turn. Don't yank on the elevator to stall her.
Tamjets is offline Find More Posts by Tamjets
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 03:28 PM
Some Girls r Bigger thn Others
swps's Avatar
USA, UT, Cedar Hills
Joined Jun 2010
1,291 Posts
I lost my F-4 over the weekend too. I would not say that I am an inexperience pilot(been flying 24 years) and certainly not with the F-4 (this is my 3rd) and other scale-like Jet airframes. I just don't think this is a very good flying plane.

The plane flew fine fast and straight and looks amazing. It sounded good too. I'd say it has plenty of power on stock and take off roll is less than the Habu 32, but as soon as it gets dirty (gear and flaps down) it becomes a very different animal. It becomes very difficult to handle and doesn't act at all like it does clean. Sure you expect that to an extent with any plane but not this dramatic of a change. I thought I was tail heavy on the first flight, so I shifted the COG forward to 153mm and it was better dirty but still not good. I would say this plane was borderline uncontrollable dirty. After the maiden I made sure to retract the gear quickly after take off, so I was clean pretty quickly and I have to say I liked the way it flew fast.

I lost mine when I put full flaps down and gear down to see if I could get used to the handling and work the gremlins out as the previous flights have been a handful on final and landing. The plane just would not turn. Best description is it became sluggish on the ailerons and super pitch sensitive. Before I knew it it had lost considerable altitude and was headed for some homes. I didn't want to stall it so I was easy on the elevator but it too wasn't responding well and wouldn't give me any altitude it would just nose up like it was tail heavy. I retracted the gear thinking that was the issue, put it to full throttle but still no real improvement. I started retracting the flaps but it was too late at the point. I cut the throttle and watched from a very far distance as it hit the roof of a house!

Fortunately, no damage to the house or anything around. The owner of the house was very understanding as well. The plane did not fare so well. Plane broke in two in front of the ducts, both ducts were thrown along with the batteries and both hatches and one wing came off the plane, the other had the tip crushed. I only lost 2 servos and the airframe.

I will not be getting another one of these. I just don't think they got all the kinks worked out (Hence the delays?), too bad too as it was a very good looking plane. I already sold the guts to a bud for his Habu 32.

I hope everyone else has better luck with theirs.
swps is offline Find More Posts by swps
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 03:44 PM
Registered User
Tamjets's Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jun 2006
5,453 Posts
I agree....Phantom is not easy like the Habu or F-16.
You got to feel her and set it up right.
I too had difficult on my first 3 flights until got her dial in.
Now is only my dump thump to blame for if I mess up.
Tamjets is offline Find More Posts by Tamjets
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 03:46 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2005
1,919 Posts
Tail Stall

I am just speculating here, but after seeing the video and a few crash reports, it sounds like tail stall to me. This could be due to the flying tail, which is a little different than most of us are use to flying. And tail stall recovery is the opposite of wing stall (you actually pull BACK). Tail stall is also worse with flaps down which is the opposite of wing stall (which is better with flaps down). Also, increasing throttle may make tail stall worse.

So all of these things are just the opposite of wing stall recovery, and might be causing the "pilot error" crash. So I am wondering if the tail throws are too aggressive with flaps down, and causing a nose down due to tail stall? (This too is opposite of how the Habu flies with more throw when speeds are lower and the plane is dirty.)

Thoughts?
tclaridge is online now Find More Posts by tclaridge
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 03:56 PM
Advocating for RC Aviation
USA, NJ, Phillipsburg
Joined Jul 2010
1,390 Posts
Confusing. Watching the video again on a larger screen and at 0.25 speed, the Phantom appears to be on knife edge when the nose drops (stall break). This could simply be a classic accelerated or high speed stall. With the bad break downwind after take-off, there was not enough altitude to recover from the resulting dive. Would need to know more about your tail stall scenario to understand if that is in play with the Phantom ARF, however, I am afraid it may confuse most of us even more if we start speculating about that flying stab as a cause. Thinking that shallow banked turns (30 deg max) at low altitude (less than 2 mistakes high), clean OR dirty, might be the safest procedure to follow until the pilot and model are well acquainted at altitude. Others are managing and so we need to learn how to fly this beast now that it is out of the box (as Habu it ain't!)!
danamania is offline Find More Posts by danamania
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 04:02 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2003
691 Posts
I concur, it looks as it was banked to much prior to nose dive.
vasek is offline Find More Posts by vasek
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 04:12 PM
Fly allot, Crash allot, next?
United States, CA, Corona
Joined Feb 2006
7,235 Posts
This plane tests all your flying ability and goes back to the basic rules of aerodynamics that you learn and practice in basic pilot training. The part where the instructor is teaching you what happens when you try to make steep turns around a point on the ground.

1. During a steep turn, pulling back on the elevator steepens and accelerates the turn. (the crash video, accelerated turn into a death roll or spin)

2. Using opposite aileron in an attempt to stop this acceleration, cross controlling, simply causes a another stall spin situation.

It's easy too talk the rudiments of flight, but flying this kind of RC small size jet puts us all to the test, as the control inputs are much less forgiving. These planes don't fly exactly like the full sized.

It was posted earlier, less throw on the elevator and more on the ailerons is the way to go. As I said, it's easy to talk a good game.
SCALEFAN is offline Find More Posts by SCALEFAN
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 05:17 PM
Mile High EDF
420flyboy's Avatar
United States, CO, Denver
Joined Jul 2011
938 Posts
I've been flying jets for a year now , no pilot training . I've never flown in my life until then , tried other planes , but couldn't fly until I tried edf's. Got a habu 32 after flying a foam habu for a month , got this jet 5 months later.

I've got to say that I find this plane very enjoyable , haven't had a problem and it slows down nicely.

Biggest thing to remember is this is not a sport jet , you want the habu 32 , buy it
420flyboy is offline Find More Posts by 420flyboy
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 05:21 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
20,804 Posts
maybe some rudder mixed with alierons so a more shallow turn could be made????
AIR SALLY is online now Find More Posts by AIR SALLY
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 05:21 PM
Fly More Crash Less
AZAerobat's Avatar
United States, AZ, Prescott
Joined Sep 2007
1,354 Posts
After talking with the pilot he admitted he banked too much trying to make the turn and that caused the plane to stall. He tried to recover by keeping the speed on and trying to pull out but it did not work. I personally think if he would have cut the throttle and just pulled back it might not have been quite as bad because as you can tell he hit the ground pretty hard causing the Lipo damage and creating the fire. My buddy lost everything in the plane except the ESC, front retract, and his RX(only because he pulled it out when he got on scene). It was a tough loss but it happens. He is already eyeing a new plane. He is thinking about the Icon A5.
AZAerobat is offline Find More Posts by AZAerobat
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 05:25 PM
Registered User
capt soap's Avatar
dallas tx
Joined Jun 2003
2,879 Posts
That f-4 had lot's of power, very good excerleration. sorry for your loss.
capt soap is online now Find More Posts by capt soap
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 05:28 PM
Registered User
Tamjets's Avatar
San Jose, CA
Joined Jun 2006
5,453 Posts
This Phantom fly like other Phantom I had flew.
Respect the charactice of the plane and learn how to fly it.
I got 6 flights yesterday and flight number 6 dump thump landed close to edge of the runway and weed cause my wing tip spin 360 degree.
Minor damage to wing and easy fix.

John,
You miss the sport when trimming the weed.
Tamjets is offline Find More Posts by Tamjets
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 05:35 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
20,804 Posts
the wing cut the weeds ......good test for the retacts and struts .....better let sean get some stick time soon.
AIR SALLY is online now Find More Posts by AIR SALLY
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Build Log Fly-Fly F-4 Phantom: BUILD CRCJA Foamy EDFs 1933 Sep 19, 2014 08:46 AM
Sold Master Fly F-4 Phantom II 1/7 scale 99"lenth 65"w dhf23 Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 9 Dec 29, 2011 09:43 PM
Alert E-Flite F-4 Phantom 32 DF ChuckTseeker Electric Plane Talk 17 Sep 09, 2011 12:54 AM
Discussion Starmax F-4 Phantom 90mm Build Thread neversommer Foamy EDFs 31 Jan 12, 2011 03:56 AM
Anyone build/fly AERC F-4 Phantom War Bird Radio Parkflyers 3 May 11, 2003 06:19 PM