HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 04, 2012, 05:22 PM
Registered User
~>Miha<~'s Avatar
Joined Dec 2009
1,473 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tritan View Post
The difference is that you said it couldn't and I questioned your information - obviously you know more than me about whats in the pipeline.
No, I don't know what is in the pipeline. And I didn't say that at all. What I said is that I don't like machines that can do everything a bit but nothing very good. Any engineer knows that. Dedicated machines are better. Like a dedicated prime is better than a zoom. Oh wait, unless we talk about the 16mm "prime" for the NEX vs. the 18-55mm zoom :-) But that's the only bizarre exception I know.

I am sceptical if Aleksey will bring out an Y6 or hex at all. What he said in the past about "what is best" clearly points to a quad. Less motors means less motors that can fail (as far as I remember). Look at the Ecilop. It is minimalistic. No redundant stuff, no bling-bling, just a dedicated and optimized system for one big goal: stable aerial video

Going now to more motors and more tasks for the machine means to make compromises and that would be a different approach. Let's wait and see.
~>Miha<~ is offline Find More Posts by ~>Miha<~
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 04, 2012, 05:39 PM
Registered User
~>Miha<~'s Avatar
Joined Dec 2009
1,473 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tritan View Post
I agree with Miha,
its up to the user if he wants foldable or not - thats why it at least it should be an option. As long as it is a well constructed fold.
With foldable you can sell to more people.
Also we must think that this is a business. You don't break even if you design something only for the few people who do this "professionally". Especially not if you sell it for 500 bucks (or now 350). At this low price you have to sell tons of it and make it appealing also to the "backyard flyers" who just like to film their neighbourhood (never understood why but that's not my problem). With them you earn the money. And the few of us who earn money by using it can be happy about the availability of a fair-priced amazing tool. So yes, foldable might be a good selling argument for the masses. I just hope this won't make it much heavier.

Luckily (at least for us the buyers, and Aleksey too) the European region where this is produced has still very low cost of labor (some Chinese regions have higher cost of labor meanwhile!). That's a major factor why it can be offered that low-priced (and even lower now). look how the Chinese copycats are struggling to bring out a copy that can compete and is cheaper. Until now though they offered just junk copies (where every USD spent is a wasted USD, but those who didn't listen and ordered that crap really deserved it...).
~>Miha<~ is offline Find More Posts by ~>Miha<~
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 08:21 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2008
401 Posts
I n a perfect world I wouldnt need a folding/collapsable system but I have more and more opportunities to work overseas and the Ecilop is my weapon of choice. At the moment I can take my the ecilop apart, and put it back together in about 15-20 mins but its a pain in the ass. Would be much easier if It could fold, or collapse easier. Most of the other high end systems have this option (S800/zenmuse, Cinestar, Flexacopter, droidworks etc)

Im also starting to shoot more and more over water so really would feel more comfortable building a Y6 for that purpose.
Jelico is offline Find More Posts by Jelico
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 11:08 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2012
203 Posts
Again, because of the moving gimbal, Ecilop Y6, X8 and XY8 (X8 with 120 degree front and back) require some additional clearance considerations.

Measure a rear facing leg with bottom motor and prop while the gimbal is fully back. Try the same to the corners. It looks like it would either need to be larger, limited prop size, or limited gimbal travel. I think it's possible but it's something to think about.

Aside from that, an X8 conversion on the Ecilop should be fairly simple if the legs are strong enough. I did the following on a custom Y6. I used the "X" shaped adapters that come with some motors. The clearances were very tight so I had to enlarge the outer holes in the adapter a little. I bolted the inner holes to the motors, then bolted the set of motors together and to the leg with the outer holes. For a leg like Ecilop, the "X" could run parallel and across the leg. The adapters could be bolted to the motors, with one bolted into the leg motor mount holes to secure it. The outer holes could then be bolted together with some spacers in between to sandwich the motors to the frame. Additionally, an extra hole could be drilled through the leg at the inside parallel hole. Sorry if that is as confusing to read as it was to type.

InfinitR is offline Find More Posts by InfinitR
Last edited by InfinitR; Dec 04, 2012 at 11:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 04, 2012, 11:47 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2012
203 Posts
Off topic, if anyone cares to share in PM what they are billing for various services, I 'd appreciate it. If not, I understand.
InfinitR is offline Find More Posts by InfinitR
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 12:49 AM
www.flycamera.de
Nordcopter's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
46 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelico View Post
2- Thats crap. I have to travel on an airline with this so a folding/collapsable frame is VERY important.
ok. that is a point.
but the fold option is a construction detail which makes the bird heavy and might weaken it. and i am afraid it is not alekseys way of approaching copters. he is about to create a minimalistic, rigid an perfect working tool vor av.

folding is a very specific need.
as far as i can see it, the most ap pros do not have.
but i understand this need in your case.
Nordcopter is offline Find More Posts by Nordcopter
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 02:35 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2007
1,579 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~>Miha<~ View Post
No, I don't know what is in the pipeline. And I didn't say that at all. What I said is that I don't like machines that can do everything a bit but nothing very good. Any engineer knows that. Dedicated machines are better. Like a dedicated prime is better than a zoom. Oh wait, unless we talk about the 16mm "prime" for the NEX vs. the 18-55mm zoom :-) But that's the only bizarre exception I know.

I am sceptical if Aleksey will bring out an Y6 or hex at all. What he said in the past about "what is best" clearly points to a quad. Less motors means less motors that can fail (as far as I remember). Look at the Ecilop. It is minimalistic. No redundant stuff, no bling-bling, just a dedicated and optimized system for one big goal: stable aerial video

Going now to more motors and more tasks for the machine means to make compromises and that would be a different approach. Let's wait and see.

I dont think it would be a wise move to bring another quad to the market.
Clearly Alexsey has succeded with the ECILOP so why would he design another quad?

The market dont need another quad - the market now need something else besides the ECILOP quad. A multi which can fulfill the demands that the buyers have - and they now want something which have redundancy, take a higher load, fly in windyer conditions etc etc. Yes I am a fan of Y6 beacuse of all the reason I wrote earlier b ut we are all different and the Quad is good for those backyard flyers but now that we have realised that the ECILOP system is very good we want further improvments and developments. Alexsey is the designer of the ECILOP and I am sure he knows the good cards he has in his hands and that he will continue with the developments of the Ecilop from a backyard flyer to something for more professional use. Hobby flyers can buy the ECILOP and professionals can buy the next generation from him.

In fact, I think his trademark is even stronger beacuse of the copy cats - they have tried in vane to copy his design and in spite of him trying to tell and learn them how to build a similar syetm they are not even close.
Thats why I trust Alexsey to have his next design to be a succes.

tritan
tritan is offline Find More Posts by tritan
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 03:09 AM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2012
203 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelico View Post
Im also starting to shoot more and more over water so really would feel more comfortable building a Y6 for that purpose.
That's funny. I'm not really ready yet but I was test flying and literally within 5 minutes, someone came up regarding a job and their first question was "will you fly it over water?"
InfinitR is offline Find More Posts by InfinitR
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 03:39 AM
Registered User
Patscherpofel's Avatar
Patsch, Austria
Joined Jul 2007
467 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordcopter View Post
1. definitely!!!!!!
2. no. nobody who is working professional needs a foldable frame. sorry.
nobody? can you tell me how I should carry my gear around the mountains?
I often hike or snowboard the whole day with the equipment on the back , shoot up to 10 locations a day,have to squeeze into gondolas...etc

also...if somebody is that pro that they dont worry about huge containers to check in at airlines , then they probably are not not shooting with smaller size copters

the whole discussion about frames is pointless...its a personal choice
its really no problem to make a system where you decide yourself how many arms you put on there...I am sure Aleksey has the skills to make a foldable system that still is solid enough I hope he is allready working on it
Patscherpofel is offline Find More Posts by Patscherpofel
Last edited by Patscherpofel; Dec 05, 2012 at 03:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 03:52 AM
Registered User
Patscherpofel's Avatar
Patsch, Austria
Joined Jul 2007
467 Posts
so while we are talking about future products
the ecilop is absolutely great but this is missing in my opinion for more professional work

-a custom made gyro for the system...(gains adjustable while tilting the camera , easier to setup...etc)
-improve the range of camera tilt
in a perfect world you could fly fast looking straight forward , and afterwards do a shot 90 degrees down...so at least I would want to be able to change the camera angle manually about 45 degrees on the ground if I know I wan to shoot an "extreme" angle perfectly steady
-bigger!...a bigger (and heavier copter) simply flys better for AP and is not so sensitive to tx input and wind...once you start a shot the copter follows this path much better...the ecilop is almost too agile because it so perfectly balanced
-support all configurations from 6-8 motors
-titable motors...the ecilop is really not perfect holding yaw axis against wind...(the battery is catching too much wind also )....bigger copters are even worse when they dont have tilted motors in the direction of yaw
-a more professional look (hanging wires everywhere is just not that pretty and if you make money with this you dont want to hear this question every day..."did you build it yourself?"
-foldable , packable ...what ever is possible
-a landing gear that makes orientation easier...the cube design of the ecilop is not very good for orientation, and is in the shot very easy flying sideways
-take off camera without having to take off the lens
-simply one nice logo on the frame instead of 20

just my 2 cents

p.s. not trying to make the ecilop look bad at all..its perfect for what its designed for and much much better then anything in that price range
Patscherpofel is offline Find More Posts by Patscherpofel
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 04:05 AM
Pants first, then shoes
Joined Jan 2011
2,764 Posts
A foldable multirotor would be perfect for the pro AP Im doing. Havent found one thats suitable for me yet, have tried a couple.

The weight issue is a bit of a red herring. I have a x650 foldable frame and its as light as any fixed frame, in fact its too light and gets pushed around by the wind when its breezy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordcopter View Post
ok. that is a point.
but the fold option is a construction detail which makes the bird heavy and might weaken it. and i am afraid it is not alekseys way of approaching copters. he is about to create a minimalistic, rigid an perfect working tool vor av.

folding is a very specific need.
as far as i can see it, the most ap pros do not have.
but i understand this need in your case.
Stacky is offline Find More Posts by Stacky
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 06:38 AM
Registered User
Japan, Tokyo, Chiyoda
Joined Oct 2010
239 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordcopter View Post
2. no. nobody who is working professional needs a foldable frame. sorry.
4. nex is fine for most ap and av jobs so far. unless you are not working for cinema.
2/ I travel a lot and a design that can be packed in low time and with little effort is essential. This is not the only thing I carry around.

4/ Nex is a joke for serious photography, mainly because of the useless lens it carries, no need to look up to cinema. It's fine for wide-angle-high-altitude-hyperfocal-sunny situation (bird's eye) for publication on the web and not demanding clients, but that's all. I recommend you try a Canon 5D3 and a 85mm f1.2 mkII to get a feeling for a real quality combo (2.5kg).

Alain
my photo work is here if you want to take a look at what I'm talking about : http://www.alaindavreux.com/
alainphoto is offline Find More Posts by alainphoto
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 07:12 AM
www.flycamera.de
Nordcopter's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
46 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by alainphoto View Post
2/ I travel a lot and a design that can be packed in low time and with little effort is essential. This is not the only thing I carry around.

4/ Nex is a joke for serious photography, mainly because of the useless lens it carries, no need to look up to cinema. It's fine for wide-angle-high-altitude-hyperfocal-sunny situation (bird's eye) for publication on the web and not demanding clients, but that's all. I recommend you try a Canon 5D3 and a 85mm f1.2 mkII to get a feeling for a real quality combo (2.5kg).

Alain
my photo work is here if you want to take a look at what I'm talking about : http://www.alaindavreux.com/
sure. but german laws only allow AUW of 5 kg at maximum. so no chance to fly around 2.5 kg only for the camera (at least if you want to have insurance safety, what a pro definitely should have.) great pictures anyway!!
Nordcopter is offline Find More Posts by Nordcopter
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 07:20 AM
Registered User
Japan, Tokyo, Chiyoda
Joined Oct 2010
239 Posts
I fly in Japan and I do not believe the 2.5kg payload is really needed, but the 1-1.5kg range will make a tremendous change in quality, mainly because of the lens (that will also put the camera center of gravity much ahead). We'll see what our favorite inventor will propose us
alainphoto is offline Find More Posts by alainphoto
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2012, 08:42 AM
Bert'sEyeViews of NYC
nycewheels's Avatar
United States, NY, New York
Joined May 2011
167 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordcopter View Post
1. definitely!!!!!!
2. no. nobody who is working professional needs a foldable frame. sorry.
3. yes.
4. nex is fine for most ap and av jobs so far. unless you are not working for cinema.
2. I work (almost) professionally and need a folding frame. The Ecilop works for now as it perfectly fits over a frame backpack but would rather fold it up and have it protected better. Riding a fast electric bike with a drone strapped to your back and antennas on your helmet just scares some folks for some reason : )

Most parks have no access to cars (at least not the more private sections)
Montague Paratrooper Folding Bike Review (4 min 8 sec)


Montague Navigator Heli shots (0 min 33 sec)
nycewheels is offline Find More Posts by nycewheels
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Five easy piece f-14 tomcat bobdaeronort Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 80 Oct 25, 2012 06:43 PM
Discussion Easy Glider VS Easy Glider Pro (what's different?) MkFn Electric Sailplanes 7 Nov 17, 2011 08:42 PM
Discussion Easi Glider film boca55 Serbia 0 Apr 20, 2008 05:46 PM
Discussion Spring Easi* in NZ harrys one Aerial Photography 8 Nov 14, 2007 02:22 PM