HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Closed Thread
Thread Tools
Old Apr 11, 2013, 10:33 AM
Registered User
United States, AZ, Queen Creek
Joined Aug 2004
795 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
It
As for testing... the majority of the testing is done through simulation, which can check all case scenarios using a computer to determine race conditions, mix/throw overlaps, math problems, etc. So, every aspect is tested, and at a rate that greatly exceeds what a huge team of beta testers could. I trust this far more than just having a whole bunch of people experiment. I know every single possible programming function and setting, and that is in a script file that gets simulated through the actual source code.
.
A simulator is a great aid if you have a commercially available unit that has been tested. If not, and you have to write your own,you have an even bigger problem.
dirtybird is offline Find More Posts by dirtybird
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 11, 2013, 10:46 AM
Registered User
Melbourne, Australia
Joined May 2006
6,407 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
It won't matter to me which ships first. I checked out the FrSky transmitter. It has a module port, so at least you can throw away the junk protocol and use one that is reliable.
What is the basis for calling it a 'junk protocol'. There has been nothing but positive feedback about the reliability and performance of the FrSky products, they didn't even have the kind of early teething problems that your own products did when first launched.

Quote:
The programming for the transmitter was typical, with only 4 swash functions, and basic controls.
I don't think you have understood the power and flexibility of OpenTx. There are indeed very few 'canned' functions but instead enormous flexibility in configuration to achieve more than most can imagine. It goes far beyond what you dismiss as 'basic controls'. Plus there is a vibrant and very active team of OpenSource developers interested in enhancing it if there is demand for new functions. It is also the only commercial Tx with a full-blown simulator that runs on PC, Mac and Linux and is available today so that interested potential users can get a feel for the programming and decide if it meets their needs. They can even program up all their models and validate them independently from the Tx, indeed, before ever owning one. Do you have a tool like that to offer potential and current XPS users?

Quote:
The receivers are only 8 channels max and you need to get the other 8 channels through their serial bus. I am not sure how that all works, the guy didn't explain it all too well.
It is easy to understand, the standard $33 "8ch" RX provides the first 8 channels on standard pins and 1 to 16 channels via an SBUS connector. SBUS is the Futaba standard for a serial servo bus. Some like it, some don't, but it is well documented and there are a growing number of SBUS servos from vendors other than Futaba, so it is not an obscure FrSky serial bus.

Quote:
No multiple timers,
Two per model
Quote:
no events
Define 'events'? There are events that can be generated based on any input (eg stick position, switch, pot, slider value), telemetry threshold and some others I don't recall. These can be used single or in combinations as inputs or conditions. It is possible to create timed sequences of actions with the classic example being sequencing gear + doors.

Quote:
only 16 channels max
This won't be a limitation for most users and there is already a 32ch variant being demonstrated.

Quote:
much slower frame rate
IIRC it is 12ms for 8ch which in any practical sense is fast enough for anyone. IIRC your is 6ms for 6ch but slower beyond that?

Quote:
slower over-air data rate, slower telemetry feedback
Perhaps, I don't know, but this has yet to be demonstrated to be a limitation.

Quote:
etc. etc. It's FrSky, so all of this is already well known. Nothing has changed from what has been around now for awhile.
Except as you know, performance increases are possible with an internal module that are not possible with a PPM interface. Plus they support a higher performance PXX interface on the module port for higher performance modules.

Quote:
Just as there have been no bugs in the transmitter modules or receivers.
Umm, certainy for a long time now, but there were when first released. IIRC there were issues with the frequency hopping not working properly, especially in noisy environments. It took a while, but you fixed it and so that's history. Perhaps you would prefer to characterise it as a design flaw or oversight rather than a bug but to users the distinction is irrelevant. I doubt there has ever been a piece of complex software that was bug free at first release and I doubt your Tx software will be the first. I don't expect it to be awful, fragile or useless, far from it, but there are bound to be bugs. Once again, it would be great if you could provide a PC-based simulator that we could all play with to gain an appreciation of the power and ingenuity of your Tx software and see if we can find any bugs ourselves.
kgfly is offline Find More Posts by kgfly
Old Apr 11, 2013, 10:51 AM
Registered User
Grich's Avatar
Joined May 2002
246 Posts
Lets think about this for a minuet, Jim has a multi million dollar company that he created, did all the designing, and implementation. He is far from the ordinary programer, business owner (that hires all the workers and only had a business plan), and did all the promoting required to start and maintain a successful business including financing!
Grich is offline Find More Posts by Grich
Old Apr 11, 2013, 10:59 AM
↓↘→ + (punch)
theKM's Avatar
central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
20,207 Posts
kgfly, you should go find a hobby or something... anything to take the place of trolling radio threads.
theKM is offline Find More Posts by theKM
Old Apr 11, 2013, 11:19 AM
Registered User
Grich's Avatar
Joined May 2002
246 Posts
Yes there are problems with frsky, u just dont hear about them. I for one dont post negative posts on the frsky side. I have over 50 rc models 6 helis 8 gliders a bunch of built up 3d ships and a bunch of 3d foammies. The problem I have with frsky is range related. I have tried setting the antennas at 90 degrees, at 45 degrees and various degrees, outside the fuse and wings (on the bottom) and still get the xmitter module to buzz indicating that im getting out of range. At only 200ft up and 100ft across from me it buzzed when i was at 30 degrees facing me. And i also get the extra buzzer at over 800ft at a different heading.
Now i have a carbon 50 size electric heli and a metal framed os70 60 sized heli both using an XPS receiver with a single 24mm antena and never had a glitch. And belive me I would have noticed a glitch on these powerful machines that have lots of metal in the way.
Also try removing your antenna on a frsky module with the power on, you can do this with the XPS and it wont fry like the frsky.
Grich is offline Find More Posts by Grich
Old Apr 11, 2013, 11:37 AM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
15,910 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtybird View Post
A simulator is a great aid if you have a commercially available unit that has been tested. If not, and you have to write your own,you have an even bigger problem.
The simulator is part of the assembler/debugger package. Nothing to write, it has existed for more than a decade and is well proven.
JimDrew is offline Find More Posts by JimDrew
RCG Plus Member
Old Apr 11, 2013, 11:45 AM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
15,910 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgfly View Post
Umm, certainy for a long time now, but there were when first released. IIRC there were issues with the frequency hopping not working properly, especially in noisy environments. It took a while, but you fixed it and so that's history.
The original frequency hopping works perfectly, as I demonstrated in videos that I made. I also demonstrated that you can wipe out a Spektrum and other brands with noise saturation. However, the amount of power required to do that while flying would cook you as a human, exceeding 100,000 watts of power. So, it was mute point.

Nothing was "fixed", because there was no issue in the real world. The ONLY reason why other hopping modes were added was to meet the ETSI's EN300-328 rule change that occurred in October of 2008. European law was changed to require all devices that could change frequencies to sit for no longer than 400ms on any one frequency and must traverse at least 15 individual frequencies. Had it not been for this rule change, I would have never changed the firmware. There are people still to do this day using the original stubby transmitter antenna and hopping mode 1 (predictive). In fact, those people refused to change because they have the "if it works then don't fix it" mind set.
JimDrew is offline Find More Posts by JimDrew
RCG Plus Member
Old Apr 11, 2013, 12:14 PM
Registered User
thebluemax's Avatar
USA, NJ, Mullica Hill
Joined Dec 2004
85 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgfly View Post
The proof will come in the pudding.
The pudding has been very, very good and I would expect it to be even better in the future.
thebluemax is offline Find More Posts by thebluemax
Old Apr 11, 2013, 12:17 PM
nsg
Registered User
Yardley, PA
Joined Sep 2006
4,167 Posts
So is there a thread for Tx retrofits (board, not module)? I'd like to upgrade my JR X9303 eventually.
nsg is offline Find More Posts by nsg
Old Apr 11, 2013, 12:42 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2007
239 Posts
I think all of the original problems reported with XPS were not a problem with XPS, but with the lack of understanding power demands of a 2.4 system vs 72. I now fly with 2S1P LiFe battery packs of 2000 mAh or better vs the 4.8 Volt NiCad 700 mAh packs I used to fly.
Uff-Da RC is offline Find More Posts by Uff-Da RC
Old Apr 11, 2013, 01:11 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2011
100 Posts
2S1P LiFe Rx pack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uff-Da RC View Post
I think all of the original problems reported with XPS were not a problem with XPS, but with the lack of understanding power demands of a 2.4 system vs 72. I now fly with 2S1P LiFe battery packs of 2000 mAh or better vs the 4.8 Volt NiCad 700 mAh packs I used to fly.
Uff-Da RC, are you using a regulator with your LiFe rx pack?
xfedex is offline Find More Posts by xfedex
Old Apr 11, 2013, 02:18 PM
Fly inverted, it's more fun.
tholmes345's Avatar
Joined Apr 2006
244 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by xfedex View Post
Uff-Da RC, are you using a regulator with your LiFe rx pack?
I use 2 cell LiFe packs in all my planes. I have had no need for a regulator. I have heard that some servos will not take that voltage although I have not experienced a problem. Hope this helps.
tholmes345 is offline Find More Posts by tholmes345
Old Apr 11, 2013, 02:46 PM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
15,910 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uff-Da RC View Post
I think all of the original problems reported with XPS were not a problem with XPS, but with the lack of understanding power demands of a 2.4 system vs 72. I now fly with 2S1P LiFe battery packs of 2000 mAh or better vs the 4.8 Volt NiCad 700 mAh packs I used to fly.
You're absolutely right! We were the first company to bring full range 2.4GHz to RC. We also did it with modules, and affordably. This meant a LOT of people were using our system, and trying to educate everyone on the power requirements of a computer based system vs. a CMOS based system was definitely difficult. Graupner certainly did not help, telling their customers to simply use their old 450mAh Nicd packs just as they would with their 36MHz systems... oh, and ignore that low voltage warning too! UGH!

We use only A123 LiFe packs for all of our setups here. No regulators, no switches - just DEANS plugs as the only connection point.
JimDrew is offline Find More Posts by JimDrew
RCG Plus Member
Old Apr 11, 2013, 05:51 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
Joined Mar 2010
2,162 Posts
Who cares about FrSky, and why is it even under discussion in an XPS thread. If I wanted one, I'd buy one from Hobbyking. What I do need, is a 6+ channel XPS Rx and that is holding up my build. Jim, can we get an update on product availability? Next couple of weeks, maybe?
TTRotary is offline Find More Posts by TTRotary
Last edited by TTRotary; Apr 11, 2013 at 06:10 PM.
Old Apr 11, 2013, 06:38 PM
Registered User
Grich's Avatar
Joined May 2002
246 Posts
what is cared about frsky is the inexpensive sensors and to make them work with XPS telemetry. The only reason i have frsky is long ago Jim said he would not support telemetry. now that thats changed i have sensors that i want to use with a much better system, the XPS.
Grich is offline Find More Posts by Grich
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold XPS 2.4GHz JR Transmitter Module (9x) az_heliguy Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 19 Apr 05, 2012 12:07 AM
For Sale Hacker / Spin 170 Controller, XPS Pro Dynamax, 15S 6800 XPS packs in 3S bricks. penceaviation Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 9 Oct 13, 2011 08:55 AM
Wanted XPS 6800mah 65c 6s want to trade for xps 5000mah 65c and will pay difference sherlockshah Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 3 Oct 12, 2011 09:30 AM
For Sale 3s xps 5000mah 65c $60 shipped with warranty also 2s xps 5000mah 65c $45 shipped with sherlockshah Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 2 Sep 24, 2011 01:48 PM
Sold TransMitt transmitter bag / warmer**price drop** aerosheldon Aircraft - General - Radio Equipment (FS/W) 5 Mar 31, 2011 01:40 PM