Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 02:38 PM
Passion
Joined Sep 2009
322 Posts
In the thread “Spektrum DX18 owners support”, it is said:

“Spektrum just decided not to implement this (snap roll) in the DX18 software.”
and
“Snap roll switches are illegal (and don't actually produce a true snap roll == stalled wing) in competition, so why bother with them?”

I am sure others will follow the example.
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 03:25 PM
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idletime's Avatar
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Apr 2011
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Illegal as in a competition or illegal as in jail time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swen View Post
In the thread “Spektrum DX18 owners support”, it is said:

“Spektrum just decided not to implement this (snap roll) in the DX18 software.”
and
Snap roll switches are illegal (and don't actually produce a true snap roll == stalled wing) in competition, so why bother with them?”

I am sure others will follow the example.
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 04:48 PM
Passion
Joined Sep 2009
322 Posts
Continue reading:

Quote:
“Snap roll switches are illegal (and don't actually produce a true snap roll == stalled wing) in competition, so why bother with them?”
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 04:51 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
Joined Mar 2010
1,956 Posts
I think automated aerobatic sequences are a bad idea. Pros can't use them in competition and experienced flyers don't need them. That leaves you with novices wanting a short cut to executing a maneuver. These same people will not understand what to do with the aircraft when they get it back from the cumputer and will promptly crash the model - probably into someone at a park. Then they will blame the radio/XPS. Forget loss of a control surface mid-maneuver. Imagine the novice with poor orientation sense and the plane does a nice slow 4 pt roll by which time it is too far downrange and flies away. I actually cannot yet execute this type of roll. But I would never try to prgramming the sequence into my radio as a shortcut. That's what the sim is for. And where does it stop? Automated hover with gyros?
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 06:50 PM
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Launceston Arpt, Tasmania, Australia
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uff-Da RC View Post
Every radio I have owned has had a Snap Roll Switch. I have never used it, but it doesn't bother me that it is there. The only thing I could see is from a totally different perspective. If I could hit a switch, and the airplane would fly level 20 min in one direction, and then crash. that would be a bad switch to program. Talk about unmanned aircraft. If you limit your programming to things that only take 1 second or so to execute, I think you are OK. I probably still would not use that function, so don't make it part of your initial release. Less work = ship sooner.
a few years ago, a local modeller actuated his snap roll lever instead of his retracts just after take-off, sufficient to say that he has never used the snaproll features since then.
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E_ferret View Post
a few years ago, a local modeller actuated his snap roll lever instead of his retracts just after take-off, sufficient to say that he has never used the snaproll features since then.
I am sorry if he crashed, but that is funny. Those are the kind of moments Video cameras are made for.
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 10:01 PM
Inciting Riots
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Joined Dec 2006
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I contemplated not adding the snap roll switches to my last Microstar, but in the end decided to add the mom-off-mom switch since I can program it to do pretty much anything, and the default is to do absolutely nothing in case you accidentally hit it. I have yet to use it for anything since I've found that I can get most things done with a mix and that doing a proper snap roll has a lot more involved than just hitting the switch. Decided I could do what the switch did with the stick and probably advance to doing the roll correctly if I practiced.
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Old Sep 02, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Joined Jan 2005
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The point of my question was to try to determine to what extent this transmitter will be user programmable. I have been at this hobby since the mid 60s and escapement single channel systems proportional systems at that time cost an adult a month’s pay and I was not an adult that being said I know kids that have only flown for a year or so that are much better pilots than I. A modern transmitter is full of features that a (Experienced Pilot) should not need to use, duel rates, expo, servo reversing, mixing, etc. If you did not like my canopy and pilot scenario here are a couple of more.
1. I like to use brakes on the main wheels of my tri-gear multi planes. With this system could I assign a spring centered 3 position switch so that in one position it would give me 100% Brakes and in the other position give me 20% for 2 seconds followed by 40% for 2 seconds followed by 100%brakes and 80% aileron reflex.
2. Landing mode switch: On activation the gear extends, and the gear doors cycle, flaps extend to 20% for 5 sec. elevator moves down 20% for 2sec then goes to 10% flaps then go to 40% as elevator goes to 30% down for 2 sec. the goes to 20%.
I’m not saying the transmitter should ship with these functions but the idea of being able to link the transmitter with your computer and program any switch, to do anything, with any number of servos has appeal to me. Other than the XPS RF link which I love, what will make this radio special If we are talking about reducing the available features? And I love my snap roll function and use it on my planes that do not have ailerons.
Richard
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 12:19 AM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
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Sequenced event programming like you have described is definitely there. I needed that feature myself for multi-door gear retract sequencing.

I don't think there will be a limit really of what you can do, we are just trying to limit our liability.
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 05:30 PM
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central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
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getting the Tx to play out a sequence is super cool, like for gear doors that Jim is describing... but for flying maneuvers, it's a bad idea. you can't adjust for all the variables at the time (wind direction, attitude, etc), every plane will be different, situations will vary, it's just a bad idea. "pro's can't use it"... even if they could, they wouldn't, as it would results in some pretty sloppy maneuvers compared to simply flying it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
I don't think there will be a limit really of what you can do, we are just trying to limit our liability.
...add warnings to convince people to not do it for flight surface control?...
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 05:56 PM
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United States, CA, LADERA RANCH
Joined Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theKM View Post
...add warnings to convince people to not do it for flight surface control?...
Maybe put a fail safe in the firmware that will not allow the use of these sequences on channels that are controlling flight surfaces, or are assigned to the control sticks.
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 06:10 PM
Xtreme Power Systems
Lake Havasu, AZ
Joined Jun 2005
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The problem is that we don't lock any channel to any flight control surface. Every channel is treated the same... so, every channel has rates, expo, multi-point curves, etc. There is no "1=aileron, 2=elevator, 3=throttle" type of hard coded configuration. The Tx emulation just fills in the variables as you are use to seeing them for the transmitter of your choice, but you can make any output set to any input.
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 06:48 PM
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I am currently building a club trainer of about 630 sq in powered with a 15 diesel with a 12 oz tank which will give 1 ˝ hr flight time, it would be useful to be able to program the elevator to gradually increase the amount of down trim over the duration of the flight as the fuel burns off.
I still don’t understand why anyone would care if I have a snap roll, or a Lomcevak switch on my transmitter, if it would be fun for me? If the fun police, and ARF monkeys don’t want to have them programmed into their transmitters then don’t.
Richard
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 08:34 PM
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Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Apr 2011
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You can't control people, and you certainly can't win against the evolutionary power of poor genes.

Simply make a note in the manual that its against the manufactures recommendations to use certain features for flight surfaces - or whatever.

Otherwise you'll have a never ending list of programing to try and prevent every conceivable contingency - more time that actually making your product marketable.
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Old Sep 03, 2012, 11:16 PM
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United States, AZ, Queen Creek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDrew View Post
The problem is that we don't lock any channel to any flight control surface. Every channel is treated the same... so, every channel has rates, expo, multi-point curves, etc. There is no "1=aileron, 2=elevator, 3=throttle" type of hard coded configuration. The Tx emulation just fills in the variables as you are use to seeing them for the transmitter of your choice, but you can make any output set to any input.
My Multiplex has this capability. The only trouble is its not straight forward how to do this and the manual that came with it is garbage. Multiplex did not sell well in the US because of this.
An American named Joedy wrote a tutorial that was so good Multiplex translated it into German for their customers. The only trouble is it is aimed at glider pilots.
A complex, highly flexible transmitter needs a simple way to assign those controls and a good manual
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