|May 26, 2012, 06:26 PM|
Rolf and Yello: I think I read somewhere in a German forum that the Wildflug Kohlekumpel (or someting similar) was being used for SpeedCup flying. Do you have any info about this model?
|May 26, 2012, 06:40 PM|
No one thought henke's Turbine Swift would do 280+ either
This Monster will not do Speed Cup speeds (you and I both know that Rolf) just want to break 200 by a bit. Gotta Walk before you run
However, the next one coming will get flown to those speeds (Speed Cup or close to it) or it will blow up in the air trying and I'll go back to building cute little 400class pylon planes that do 140 but look like they are doing 500.
The wind has died the weather is beautiful and I'm finally headed to the field
|May 26, 2012, 10:21 PM|
I had a good feeling about tonight No one was at the field I had the whole place to myself which ment I could set up the camera and land anywhere...except near the Bagers hole
The first flight was with the 7x13's and 3S. The numbers aren't worth the time to type
So I switched props to the APC 7x8 and threw the 5S in there
Here are the numbers:
Static at launch: Amps 248
In Flight (4) WOT passes then quickly got it on the ground.
AMPS 241.3 max
AMPS 223 avg
Watts 3884 max
Watts 3566 avg
RPM's 29,936 max
RPM's 25,933 avg
And the best news of all Waveoscope on best pass 204
Second best news: Motor temp at landing 154F (At 154F this motor can still take more) Unless Steve N chimes in and tells me I'm getting ready to cook it!
The Bad news is the ESC temps are not liking the situation...so have outflown the ESC and will make plans for a bigger one.
Made good on my promise to blow a battery...it was so puffed I could barely get it out of the Fuz!
I will say this..the plane really sounded good going by at those Screamin RPM's
Oh Yeah set the brake "hard" and didn't break the prop!
Can't imagine what 250 looks and sounds like!
|May 26, 2012, 11:32 PM|
OK, I need to set my brake to hard and see what happens
|May 27, 2012, 01:31 AM|
What was the timing set for on the esc? Low timing could help and sometimes adjusting the frequency can help the esc run cooler. Neu might be able to advise on the proper settings.
|May 27, 2012, 08:38 AM|
Hey Steve C - Timing was set to lowest setting per NEU instructions and switching rate was also at lowest setting.
I am pushing this "Ice Lite" it does not have the heat sinks that the Ice 200 has and really isn't made for where I am going with these applications and I know that. Will not be pushing it any further as I really like the ESC and don't want to lose it. There are other applications down the road that it will be perfect in.
Working on getting a 300amp ESC!
|May 27, 2012, 11:29 AM|
From dimensions, airfoil and fuse capacity the Kohlekumpel seemed to be a good choice for speeding but even tough the wing is full carbon there is still a questionmark behind the ability to go faster than 300 km/h.
Steve Penz got his Kohlekumpel to 360Km/h:
scroll down to Kohlekumpel
But there has also been several very sad experiences with Kohlekumpel, Grenzer or Flüchter from Wildflug: http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...=1#post1855661
The monster really looks quite draggy but at the moment it seem to be the only speeder in this size available.
I have not held this plane in my hands but for me its more designed to get success in sale than in competition.
Full carbon look is beautiful and attractive but not helpful in daily use.
Cevlar/aramid fuses are lighter and more reliable and tails in this size can easily beeing built in glasfiber which is also much lighter.
The fuse is massive,but you can not use the space for lipos due to CG issues.
Speederfuselages in this size should be designed arround 8 or 9 cells 3000mah with 3S block under the controller and a 5s block behind.
With a 300g motor and a long tailarm ( for better highspeed-stability)and a light tail it should be ballanced fine.
Most of the guys here in the groups are happy with their big pylon or speeder- "panel trucks"( watch the jolt or swist threads) but you have to be aware that speed is the ballance of power/thrust versus drag.
In some cases the bigger power by bigger accus or drivetrains may outdo the higher drag but it will also end in higher weight which is for sure not faster!
All electric competition classes follow the progress in lipo-technology and reduce fuse front area and surface, why are all these sportflyers allways asking for bigger fuses and thicker wings to stick bigger sevos in it?
Is it not speed what they are looking for aswell?
For example some pics of the F5d Flipper compared with the "F5d" Pilf attached.
I am sure the Pilf will require at least 50% more power to get to the same speed than the Flipper and it will be at this powerlevel about 35% heavier,i think fun-pylon will run out of fun and start to get "racy" already at the launch,at the latest at landing!
Obviously there is still a process of developement at HJK, the new pilf seems to be of much better quality ,lighter,slimer wing and thin end-edges but still with giant fuse and (too) long nose.
They just follow what customers ask for, so if you want really get fast,ask for the right stuff!
|May 27, 2012, 05:22 PM|
This is all extremely interesting - the fastest planes have evolved into something quite different from a pylon racer - because of power train limitations, wing loading rules, and strength requirements.
Props are a great example - high pitch is the only real way to get high speed because a prop has limits of rotational speed. So they have evolved into sizes like 8x23...
Joe Manor wanted to convert one of his DS ships to a 300 mph electric - but it was doomed from the start because a DS glider is not built to be light, store the necessary batteries, balance correctly, and have a large motor up front.
So it will be very interesting to see how far Arcteryxxx can take this concept!!!
|May 27, 2012, 05:50 PM|
@Arctic: do you have room for this one? http://fightercatracing.com/index.ph...emart&Itemid=1
Any ideas of the unloading factor of the MK 7x13?
|May 27, 2012, 06:29 PM|
WOW...Like minds...think alike! I found that yesterday while surfing for 300amp ESC's and plan on calling those guys tomorrow! I don't know if I can get it in the current Monster...that bad boy is 7 inches long and 2 inches wide. Could possibly get it into the Monster 1.1 Tomorrow I am going to make a model of that ESC out of wood and duplicate the weight and size...then will know if it will go...you can get those things with a tiny electric fan!
Wish I could give you some good flights numbers on the 7x13 folders. With this motor (NEU 1515/1Y) anything over 3S is probably going to COOKthis ESC (Ice Lite 200) I did one 3 second burst static with it (7x13's) on 4S and got 302AMPS Had a hard time holding on to the airframe
I looked back over my charts and found two flights with 5S on the Typhoon 650 where the static AMPs were about 121 and the inflight WOT's ran about 106. However it appears that those numbers begin to close on each other as the Watts go up.
When the new motor gets here from across the pond the 7x13's will get a workout!
|May 27, 2012, 11:05 PM|
|May 27, 2012, 11:25 PM|
Steve - I'm glad your on here I have only landed this motor twice...the first landing it broke the prop...then I got a 200+ run out of it on the second flight...then today I took it out to see about room for an ESC and found that the back plate was slightly pushed back. I guess Murdo's concern about breaking props and the back plates was well founded. The tiny screws were to deep and actually worked their way under the metal they did not break through the back of the case if that makes sense.
I am so bummed as I love this motor...any suggestions!
Thanks for the PM Steve!
|May 28, 2012, 03:34 AM|
speedmeeting in germany
for the ppl who are interested,
in germany was a meeting from the speedplane guys,
fastest speed was
473 km/h in one direction and 440 km/h in second direction.
Pilot and owner of the Speedplane is Joachim Weinrich
was the fastest flight ever measured with a propeller driven RC Plane.
|May 28, 2012, 04:52 AM|
Shame over me!
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