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Old Apr 21, 2012, 01:49 PM
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Help!
Did Hobby King just try to scam me?

So, I ordered a slew of things from hobby king this past week in several orders. I put all of my backorder items in one cart and ordered them together. Website said on average 14 days. After placing the order I contacted them asking for an estimated wait time. There response was 3 months for some of the items. Well clearly that is not what I agreed to or wanted. So I asked for a refund, they didn't respond so I opened a dispute with paypal. Not a big deal at all, they just need to go to the resolution center and refund my money. I updated that in the support contact and hoped it would help. I received this comment from them,



Quote:
#####

HKCS


Hi #######,

Thanks for contacting the HobbyKing Support Team.

As per your request, we have cancelled your order amd sent a refund request for you.

Please be advised that the fund is temporary held by PayPal due to the PayPal case, please close the case and we will process the refund for you.

Your patience is much appreciated.

Thanks for emailing support.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Regards.
####
HobbyKing Support Team
Dont forget to follow us on Twitter and Facebook for discounts and promotions!
www.facebook.com/hobbykinglive
www.twitter.com/hobbykinglive

**Due to the large amount of accumulated backlogs, order processing and ticket response time will be slightly delayed. For Urgent matters, please contact us via our live chat service instead. We thank you for your patience and understanding.**
Well before closing the dispute I contacted PayPal and asked them if this was the correct protocol. They told me categorically NOT to close the dispute until the funds where in my account. And further, that had I closed the dispute there is no way to reopen it, and I would have no recourse and likely would have never seen the money that I had sent to them.

Upon logging into my HK account the order was no longer listed, and the money was not present in my "Bank."

I find it hard to believe that they would be intentionaly scamming people? Particularly a newer customer. But this sure smells funny. I think I may avoid this company from now on. The PayPal rep told me to wait 48 hours for a response from them after citing paypal policy. If I did not hear from them to escalate it to a claim. I don't want to have to make a mountain out of a mole-hill here but this seems pretty odd to me. What are your thoughts?

I did notice that this cancelation put my account at a -0.74 balance. So in the interest of fairness I purchased .74 to return my balance to 0. (I had used some points to purchase some stuff.) Perhaps thats why they were witholding funds. But I don't know. Now my account is at 0. I gave them proof that I wasn't trying to be shady, and hopefully this can all be resolved now. What do y'all think?

Also, just to clarify, I am not upset or ranting here. Just perplexed and requesting more information from your experiences.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 02:08 PM
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Also, just to clarify, I am not upset or ranting here. Just perplexed and requesting more information from your experiences.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 02:50 PM
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I'm not sure whether it has just been a simple misunderstanding which has been lost in translation but I had a rather weird situation regarding a refunded order.

Basically, I ordered a few items 1 of which was on backorder, no problem with that at all. After waiting for about a month for it to be restocked I fired an email to support asking for an estimated time for it to become available and was told they had no idea if it actually was ever going to be stocked again.

Given that reply, I used the cancel order facility in my account expecting a full refund. What I actually got was the order credited to my points account!
I spoke to support again and after going round the houses was told that it was policy to only refund orders cancelled by the customer to points accounts and not in the form of a normal refund. A side effect of HK absorbing the paypal charge at order placement apparently and supposedly to stop customers cancelling orders on a whim and costing HK in paypal costs.

At the time I wasn't happy with the situation that I had effectively been held to ransom because they couldn't restock. I then had to use the points on another item but upon checking out I found that they only take the value of the goods from your points and you cannot use them for the total (inc shipping) cost of the order! Even though the original refunded order included the shipping.

After that I swore I wouldn't use them again unless the stuff was in stock and the price was soooo low it didn't make sense to not get it. As usual though they have managed to price stuff so competitively it's madness not to use them

Three orders later and 2 of them have turned up within 5 days (HK>UK) and another apparently in transit so apart from the unethical (imo) refund policy I can't complain about the service, so far......
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 03:04 PM
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Yeah. That's kind of my opinion also. My plan is to only order in stock cheap items from now on. PayPal told me to give 48 hours then file a claim. In which time they would force the funds.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 03:05 PM
fmw
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We westerners are pretty spoiled with customer service, which incidentally, is the most time consuming and expensive part of on-line selling. In our on-line e-store, fully 90% of our time is spent doing customer service. The rest of the stuff - buying stock, filling orders etc. is trivial by comparison. We pay a fortune for it in the form of product prices in the U.S. and Europe.

All of that has been removed at Hobby King as well as the high costs involved in delivering it. It is critical to understand that. You can't have those prices along with what you normally expect in terms of customer service. It isn't possible. My fear is that we westerners will force Hobby King to change their model and, because of that, raise prices - probably double or more. Hobby King is a great resource for those who can take care of themselves. it is not a full service retail business. If you need customer service, please go somewhere else. I'd hate to lose the resource. I've had some losses from Hobby King too. They are paid for many times over with the low prices.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Again this isn't an anti hobby king thread or an assault on their customer service. It's about changing one line of code on an HTML to state that back orders may take 3 months or more to fill. Then they could rewrite some software that would take customer service necessity out of the equation. Why can we not handle our own order history and processing. We should be able to directly cancel orders on our own and have the option of store credit or a PayPal reimbursement. They could even update te coding to provide an estimated delivery date rather simply. I was a computer science major in college an used to design websites. Simple automation is the #1 method of reducing costs. The more that you can convince the customer to accomplish for themselves the less you have to pay a support staff. That's the way toward saving money. And it's pretty easy to do to. .
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 03:40 PM
Tumbling Turkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmw View Post
We westerners are pretty spoiled with customer service, which incidentally, is the most time consuming and expensive part of on-line selling. In our on-line e-store, fully 90% of our time is spent doing customer service. The rest of the stuff - buying stock, filling orders etc. is trivial by comparison. We pay a fortune for it in the form of product prices in the U.S. and Europe.

All of that has been removed at Hobby King as well as the high costs involved in delivering it. It is critical to understand that. You can't have those prices along with what you normally expect in terms of customer service. It isn't possible. My fear is that we westerners will force Hobby King to change their model and, because of that, raise prices - probably double or more. Hobby King is a great resource for those who can take care of themselves. it is not a full service retail business. If you need customer service, please go somewhere else. I'd hate to lose the resource. I've had some losses from Hobby King too. They are paid for many times over with the low prices.
I think you may have misunderstood the two posts. Mine had nothing to do with complaining about customer service at all. I actually mentioned contacting support twice and getting adequate replies.
I accept that paying lower prices has a downside and fully understand that with HK CS is the cost. My query was the unethical refund proceedure which effectively isn't a refund for items they haven't supplied in the first place rather than items that are missing.

I don't want HK to change the way they sell stuff, I accept things aren't perfect but one thing still shocks me. People seem very nonchalant about stuff never being delivered just because the stuff was offered cheaply in the first place. It sometimes comes across that we should be thankful when things actually arrive.

I accept that things may sometimes turn up d.o.a and can fully accept that but I would put that down as a consequence buying cheap rather than it not actually turning up in the first place.

Personally If I order something I expect it to at least be posted regardless of how much I paid for it. If not I expect a refund otherwise in my eyes it's fraud. If it's then lost in the post then that is out of HK's hands and cannot be attributed to them.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 05:20 PM
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Having read another of your threads about HK I think you are having a laff. If you claim to not know what I'm talking about then read this then read this thread and then read the first post in this one which is exactly the same as the 2nd thread.

I am ceasing my involvement in this thread.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 06:20 PM
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Yes those two other posts were by me. The placed an order for me was caused by a misunderstanding of hobby king order practices. And was resolved simply by asking the question. Much like I am now. The other was a double post bc I was afraid that I had posted in the wrong forum. I am not having a laugh or trolling. Just trying to resolve an issue and learn from others experiences. When I do not know how to handle a situation that I have found myself in I am better off asking questions before I start with rash actions. That is all. Further I was not addressing anything that you had said in any of my comments.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Seriously does anyone have experience canceling an order w. hk. I don't need store credit right now. I just want this resolve.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 11:35 PM
Flying from Vic Park
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Part of this situation is due to our use of PayPal - place your order and HK take to money straight out of your account via PayPal. Does HK really care if it takes 3 months for the back order to be filled they have their money. With a CC technically HK or any vendor should not charge your CC until until the product you ordered has been shipped. I have never used a CC with HK so I am not sure if they charge your CC on placing your order or until it has been shipped.
Yes I do buy HK stuff mostly batteries. HK have openned a shop front here in Adelaide it is interesting that the 50mm T-45 is $86 deliveried from Sydney where at the HK Adelaide shop front it was $110.00. The advantage of the Adelaide shop is I could check it was Iall there before buying and paying cash and placing in the shed when I got home to keep it below the wife's radar.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:22 AM
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That's a really valid point about PayPal that I havn't considered. Has anyone ever worked as a PayPal seller before? If you refund does it cost you anything? If so that's a pretty unrealistic expectation from PayPal.

What about the credit card? Does hk charge your card for items on backorder at time of purchase or time of shipping?

But I digress. I would love to have any store near by to buy parts. It just doesn't seem to be in my cards. The local shops only park zone and blade kit. So unless u want to spend 250 for an arf foamy you are out of luck. Plus it's not a great idea to crash a 250 p51 because it's your first model.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 10:57 PM
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No word from them today, although it was a weekend, I am going to give them till end of business tomorrow then escalate the dispute to a claim. Let the money that I have been paying to paypal for the past 10 years solve this problem for me. Its honestly, not worth my time any longer. I learned a very valuable lesson, be careful on what you order from them. Make sure that its in stock. Don't believe the 14 day backorder thing. And most importantly, ALWAYS use paypal.
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 09:32 AM
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The HK game rules FWIW.
Canceled order monies are turned into points (1 point = 1$) - the points can be used to buy hardware but not pay for shipping, even though some of those points were originally for shipping costs.

If requested (preferably at the time of cancellation), the monies will be returned to the method of payment. Just ask them to refund your money to PayPal or whatever source you used to pay for the items. All monies paid for shipping/parts will be refunded.
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 10:02 AM
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Hi,
Just to clarify a bit, when you filed the dispute with paypal, paypal immediately set that money aside , in other words HK can not get it unless the dispute is resolved in their favor or you drop the claim. So you see they have to have you close that dispute to get their money so they can refund it, otherwise if they refund your money with a dispute still in place with PP, you can then tell PP that you didn't get the refund. The HK have to prove somehow that you did. So it would be easy for you to get a refund as points from HK then tell PP you didn't get it and demand a PP refund the amount, which unfortunately 9 times out of 10 they will do.
So they are not trying to scam you they are just trying to protect themselves from being scammed.

Your idea of putting all your back orders into one order is a good one, but you missed a handy tip. Put them all in one order, when most of them have come into stock and you get sick of waiting for the rest, just go to your account . After an order has been held up waiting for back ordered items for around 2 weeks you get the option of removing anything that is still on back order or cancelling the entire order, and you are immediately awarded a credit for them. BUT the credit is in bonus points, you would have to contact them to get it payed into your paypal account.

The back order time delays are a complete mystery to me, sometimes things will say 2 weeks for stock to arrive and take 2 months other times it says 2 months and it turns up a few days latter. So I do your trick and lump all the back orders together then when I have most of them or the important ones in, I just cancel the rest.


Hope that helped, it is late and it even reads as confusing to me :-)

Cheers
Tony
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