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Old Apr 22, 2012, 04:48 AM
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Russian Federation, Sakha, Yakutsk
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Originally Posted by BushmanLA View Post



There ya go.....
His head looks fine. I've had worse bar brawls.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:09 PM
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Sherlock's Avatar
Milwaukee, WI
Joined Sep 2006
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Then it is good that I didn't accuse him of making that claim, isn't it.

But, that is clearly the image he desired to create..
No, that is not clearly the image he desired to create. He has been very clear in the things he has been saying. Your track record for understanding what he says is not good. This case is no exception.

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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Then it is odd that he didn't state that it was holstered. Why do you feel he neglected that fact? You might as well answer that question for him, too.
He did not state it because weather ir not it was holstered is not in contention. It does not need to be stated. You create an imaginary need from your nitpicking of irrelevent semantics. There is no need to "answer" anything for anyone. It is obvious.


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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
No, that isn't the case. I clearly see the image he attempts to portray, and I redirect to an accurate image instead. It IS relevant, no matter how often you whine about it not being relevant.
Your desired image is just a guess. You have no idea weather he had his gun in his holster or in the glove box or on the floor before he exited to pursue Treyvon. It is irrelevant anyway. He was armed as he left his truck and began to pureue Treyvon and I have herd no one claim that the gun was in his hand.

Pointing out your fixation on irrelevant semantics in order to distract is not "whining". It is just a normal part of arguing with you.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:35 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
No, that is not clearly the image he desired to create. He has been very clear in the things he has been saying. Your track record for understanding what he says is not good. This case is no exception.:
Yes, he has been very clear.

The image he wants to portray is that Zimmerman was 'out to get' Trayvon, and that Trayvon was completely innocent of any violence.

I fully understand what he has been saying, AND how he has been saying it, and WHY he says things the way he does. I see no way for you to view it the way you do, unless you simply desire to not agree with me.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:38 PM
THE ЯUSSIANS ARE COMING!
rcposter's Avatar
United States, CA, SF
Joined Apr 2011
191 Posts
I just wish Zimmermann hadn't grabbed his gun and pursued that kid.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:41 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
He did not state it because weather ir not it was holstered is not in contention. It does not need to be stated. You create an imaginary need from your nitpicking of irrelevent semantics. There is no need to "answer" anything for anyone. It is obvious.
"Holstered or not" IS relevant. If it was holstered, then it was concealed under his jacket per FL law. Thus, the claims that Trayvon was fearing an armed man are bare speculation only.
If it wasn't holstered, then it was visible to Trayvon, changing the entire scenario. Whether it is holstered or not is quite relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock
Your desired image is just a guess. You have no idea weather he had his gun in his holster or in the glove box or on the floor before he exited to pursue Treyvon. It is irrelevant anyway. He was armed as he left his truck and began to pureue Treyvon and I have herd no one claim that the gun was in his hand.
Actually, yes I do 'have an idea whether it was in his holster or in the glove box or on the floor.'
According to Zimmerman, he was ccing. That defines it as 'in the holster.' And, that was where it was upon contact with LE. It is not logical to even speculate that it would be in the glove box, or on the floor, unless the goal is to create the image that he actually 'grabbed his gun' to follow Trayvon.

The reality, based upon the available evidence and testimony, is that Zimmerman had a holstered firearm, concealed per FL statute. Changing that to 'grabbed his gun' is sheer speculation for imagery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock
Pointing out your fixation on irrelevant semantics in order to distract is not "whining". It is just a normal part of arguing with you.
Yet, it isn't irrelevant. And, it isn't to distract, it is to point out the inaccuracy of his statement.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:41 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
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Originally Posted by rcposter View Post
I just wish Zimmermann hadn't grabbed his gun and pursued that kid.
Once again, it is evident that what you attempt to claim simply isn't accurate. Why do you persist, when you earlier stated that you wanted to 'stick to facts?'
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:52 PM
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Milwaukee, WI
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Yes, he has been very clear.

The image he wants to portray is that Zimmerman was 'out to get' Trayvon, and that Trayvon was completely innocent of any violence.

I fully understand what he has been saying, AND how he has been saying it, and WHY he says things the way he does. I see no way for you to view it the way you do, unless you simply desire to not agree with me.
Zimmerman was "out to get" Treyvon. That is clear. Exactly what he intended to do when he left his truck is not known. We do know that he pursued Treyvon when he started to run.

No one has argued that Zimmerman was carring the gun in his hand. There has been speculation as to weather or not Treyvon saw the gun at some point. This is not clear. The point that RC was making was that Zimmerman was armed. "Grabbed his gun" is just a way of saying that Zimmerman was armed when he began to pursue Treyvon. Only someone trying to distract would attemt to make that general statement into something it is not.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:03 PM
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Sherlock's Avatar
Milwaukee, WI
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
"Holstered or not" IS relevant. If it was holstered, then it was concealed under his jacket per FL law. Thus, the claims that Trayvon was fearing an armed man are bare speculation only.
If it wasn't holstered, then it was visible to Trayvon, changing the entire scenario. Whether it is holstered or not is quite relevant.
I have not seen a single argument that Zimmerman was pursuing Treyvon with the gun in his hand. Weather or not Treyvon saw the gun, and when he saw it IF he did are not known. Your attempt to extend RC's general statement "grabbed his gun" into the above is ridiculous.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
Actually, yes I do 'have an idea whether it was in his holster or in the glove box or on the floor.'
According to Zimmerman, he was ccing. That defines it as 'in the holster.' And, that was where it was upon contact with LE. It is not logical to even speculate that it would be in the glove box, or on the floor, unless the goal is to create the image that he actually 'grabbed his gun' to follow Trayvon.

The reality, based upon the available evidence and testimony, is that Zimmerman had a holstered firearm, concealed per FL statute. Changing that to 'grabbed his gun' is sheer speculation for imagery.
You can only speculate if Zimmerman was following the rules that apply to CCing. Given his history it is possible that he was not following the rules. If he had his gun holstered when he left the truck, weather or not he put it there from the floor or the glove box or wherever OR it was already there is irrelevant. Which perfectly exposes your attempted distraction involving figures of speech.

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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
"Yet, it isn't irrelevant. And, it isn't to distract, it is to point out the inaccuracy of his statement.
No it is irrelevant. You are attempting to claim that RC's statement implies that something is in contention that IS NOT. No one has claimed that Z pursued T with the gun in his hand and RC was not attempting to do so with the statement he made. Your fixation on it is an irrelevant distraction. Not that that is anything new
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:09 PM
Mr Mootsie
Tim Jonas's Avatar
Pepperell, MA, USA
Joined Jan 2001
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Originally Posted by rcposter View Post
I just wish Zimmermann hadn't grabbed his gun and pursued that kid.
Gosh, I hope you're able to sleep, what with all this sturm und drang in your life.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:14 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
Zimmerman was "out to get" Treyvon. That is clear. Exactly what he intended to do when he left his truck is not known. We do know that he pursued Treyvon when he started to run.
No, that is not 'clear.'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock
No one has argued that Zimmerman was carring the gun in his hand.
So you should easily agree that 'grabbed his gun' is quite inaccurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock
There has been speculation as to weather or not Treyvon saw the gun at some point. This is not clear. The point that RC was making was that Zimmerman was armed. "Grabbed his gun" is just a way of saying that Zimmerman was armed when he began to pursue Treyvon. Only someone trying to distract would attemt to make that general statement into something it is not.
If the point he was making (since you seem to speak for him ) is that Zimmerman was armed, it is quite sufficient to state that Zimmerman was armed. It is quite telling that he instead chose the imagery in the 'grabbed his gun,' which implies much more than 'armed.'

And, the distraction is on you now, for your blind devotion to the imagery presented by rcp.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:18 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
I have not seen a single argument that Zimmerman was pursuing Treyvon with the gun in his hand. Weather or not Treyvon saw the gun, and when he saw it IF he did are not known. Your attempt to extend RC's general statement "grabbed his gun" into the above is ridiculous.
No, it isn't ridiculous at all. In fact, it is a perfect fit with the narrative attempted throughout these discussions by rcp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock
You can only speculate if Zimmerman was following the rules that apply to CCing. Given his history it is possible that he was not following the rules.
No, given his history, it is CLEAR that he was most likely following the rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock
If he had his gun holstered when he left the truck, weather or not he put it there from the floor or the glove box or wherever OR it was already there is irrelevant. Which perfectly exposes your attempted distraction involving figures of speech.
Given that Zimmerman stated it differently than the bare speculations you and rcp present, it is most likely that he was cc before, during, and after.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock
No it is irrelevant. You are attempting to claim that RC's statement implies that something is in contention that IS NOT. No one has claimed that Z pursued T with the gun in his hand and RC was not attempting to do so with the statement he made. Your fixation on it is an irrelevant distraction. Not that that is anything new
I actually STATE that rcp clearly desires to create imagery that isn't accurate. He clearly desires to imply that Zimmerman was visibly armed, and that his 'act' of arming himself was specific to his 'desire to pursue' Trayvon.

His narrative is clear. Your support of his narrative is becoming more clear with each post you make about it.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:34 PM
THE ЯUSSIANS ARE COMING!
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United States, CA, SF
Joined Apr 2011
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I shudder at the thought of how terrified Martin must have been when tracked-down by the stranger he had previously eluded. Can you imagine?
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 03:12 PM
I'd rather be Flying
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Nashville, NC, USA
Joined Mar 1999
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Originally Posted by rcposter View Post
I shudder at the thought of how terrified Martin must have been when tracked-down by the stranger he had previously eluded. Can you imagine?
Your comment is quite laughable. The girlfriends report of their phone conversation does not paint the picture of a "terrified" Trayvon.

Dave
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 03:23 PM
THE ЯUSSIANS ARE COMING!
rcposter's Avatar
United States, CA, SF
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Originally Posted by davecee View Post
Your comment is quite laughable. The girlfriends report of their phone conversation does not paint the picture of a "terrified" Trayvon.

Dave
I would have been entirely freaked-out. Some weirdo stares at you intensely enough as you walk by his truck that you dart into a secluded footpath to get out of sight of him. You tell your girlfriend about the weirdo on the cell phone. Next thing you know, the stranger has tracked you down.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 03:31 PM
Trons and Fumes
wrightme's Avatar
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by rcposter View Post
Next thing you know, the stranger has tracked you down.
Actually, that is false. It is more correct to state 'next thing you know, he is gone and you go find him to confront him.'

While what you speculate might have happened, the evidence so far does not support your fabricated event.

You might have forgotten......
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Originally Posted by rcposter View Post
Agreed. People should be sure to adhere to the facts of the case.
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