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Old Oct 22, 2012, 11:20 AM
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Romania, Dolj, Craiova
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The problem with Hitec is that the system wasn't developed by them, but a third party that now is gone, thus the slow response of fixing bugs and others.
The only remaining software people - could be a single guy doing this part time, if we look at results - seems to be at Visual Basic 6 level, and not able to grow up, look at the telemetry application he develop.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 12:25 PM
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United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Jan 2012
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There are couple of guys at the park where I fly who have A9s. One has a telemetry voice module. It's pretty bad ass to hear a woman announce the flight pack voltage as you fly.

Renatoa - the end justifies the means. I don't think we (or FrSky in this case) should get caught up in the minutiae of what's inside a transmitter. But rather, concentrate more on the user experience. This is partly why tech engineers should not be allowed to have the final say in a product development. LOL
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 01:03 PM
Happy FPV flyer
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Switzerland
Joined Sep 2006
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Originally Posted by Left Coast DJ View Post
This is partly why tech engineers should not be allowed to have the final say in a product development. LOL
But unfortunately if they don't it's the marketing department who does it instead - and that's even much worse, you get Spektrum radios that are neither user friendly nor flexible/powerful... But as they look cool and trendy, and are backed by tons of advertising they sell like hot cakes and bring truckloads of money in, who cares about what people do with them anyway!
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 01:09 PM
Arducopter Developer
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Joined Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by Left Coast DJ View Post
R_Lefebvre - I agree. I have an Android phone (HTC Thunderbolt) right now. But I've been off contract for a while and am about to switch to an iPhone 5 as soon as I can get my hands on one. Yes, Android is very powerful and allows you to configure the phone exactly the way you want it. But I'm also tired of the sudden reboots, lock-ups, and missed calls that are beginning to happen more frequently. But I don't own a phone for it's specs or "configureability". I want to be able to use it for calls, texts, and photos. So with an iPhone I'll look like every other douche-bag out there carrying one. But at least it'll be butter smooth and the Apple store provides rock solid support.
Until you go to update the software, and all of a sudden the phone that you bought and paid for, partially because of it's excellent GPS/Mapping application, has not had it replaced with a POS software that doesn't work.

That type of thing... drives me insane. Or not being able to simply replace a battery.

I get what you're saying about Android. I bought mine about a year ago, and almost had to bring it back. Battery life was about 8 hours if it's just sitting on a desk. Basically, a flaw in the firmware wasn't letting it sleep properly. Google had fixed it in May, but the update had to go through Samsung, who had to tweak it for this model, and then my carrier had to put their "personal touch on it", basically, 6 months had passed and I still had a phone that didn't work!

But, instead of bringing it back, I rooted it, put on Cyanogen Mod. Problem solved. Now I got rid of all the bloatware, the phone can do more stuff, easier to use, yet also I can really customize it how I want... And it runs pretty much flawlessly. More reliable than my brother's Iphone.

Open Source rocks.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 02:05 PM
Flying a Chipmunk in Portugal
jhsa's Avatar
NRW, Germany
Joined Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by Left Coast DJ View Post
There are couple of guys at the park where I fly who have A9s. One has a telemetry voice module. It's pretty bad ass to hear a woman announce the flight pack voltage as you fly.
It's not only the flight pack.. Some people's clubs are near international airports and they are restricted to a certain altitude.. An altitude alarm comes very handy then. with or without voice. with voice is better of course because we can get confused with beeps. Since I have audio on my radio I don't have to take my eyes off the model anymore. Just couldn't go back to a radio that doesn't have that feature. So, if the frsky radios have voice, they will certainly be adequate for me..
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:38 AM
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yorkshire UK
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Originally Posted by scott page View Post
I disagree a bit with FrSky having the ability to satisfy both needs. Not and keep the price point where they want it......
I don't believe their strength is in their code -- but in their hardware. Their GUI on the DHTU and the FLD-02 is clunky at best. To their credit -- they listen to their users with great interest and work to remedy issues. If they were to spend the time to develop a strong GUI the price of the development would be considerably higher. The transmitters will certainly be open source -- and the best source of firmware will come from making it open source. If the open source code jockeys want to develop for only code jockeys then FrSKY will have a limited user base. I

However -- "the masses" really won't care either way because "the masses" don't even use the most features their Futabas, JR's, and Spektrums provide because they just don't get it. Exponential and dual rates mystify way too many pilots -- and elevons, V-tail, and mixes are not used by the mass of the masses because they don't understand how to set them up -- EVEN with the the "easy GUIs".

Rotozuk -- Here is a control for your experiment. Put a Futaba in the hand of a set of pilots that have never programmed one, or a Spektrum in the hand of any pilot that's never programmed one of them -- and ask them to set up a full house glider. Get a video tape because what follows might make America's funniest home video.

I'm not pulling this out of my empennage -- I've asked many friends about how they program their birds or set them up in the first place because I'm a club trainer and I've noticed this void of understanding for some time.
Scott, you are right there, it amazes me how little most people know about the mixes available and I have set up a lot of planes for m8s usually without the instructions, I myself like to tinker with things to get a grip on how they work and then if I'm really stuck I will grudgingly get the manual out, however these days it's easier to have a look on the forums/youtube etc for a solution as someone else has nearly always had the same thing!

But with the ablity to down copy across complete model setting over the net it's gonna make it a lot easier for people to have a near perfect set up with hardly any work, then they can fine tune as needed and perhaps learn from that how the mixes work, So perhaps an easy interface is not so important after all.

But it's gonna open source so surely you will at least have the option for choosing an easy interface or a really flexible one, but as long as the hardware is sound then the really good software will come not from frsky but from people who are passionate about their planes and are prepared to put in the time and effort to write and keep updating the software that people really want.

So I think the tx will be good to start with but be fantastic in 6 months or so.

I will have to get a decent warbird with lots of things to tinker with so I can have the radio announce "gear down and locked".
I wonder if it will announce things like

"you are flying very well today!"
"That was a very nice touch down"
and hopefully not too often
"You appear to have crashed, there is extensive damage to the nose cowling, motor shaft is bent, wings are warped and dented, tail has suffered some damage and your lipo has been punchured and is about to catch fire, oh and your friends are trying very hard not to laugh"
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:18 AM
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Austria
Joined Jan 2004
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Originally Posted by nigelsheffield View Post
Scott, you are right there, it amazes me how little most people know about the mixes available and I have set up a lot of planes for m8s usually without the instructions, I myself like to tinker with things to get a grip on how they work and then if I'm really stuck I will grudgingly get the manual out, however these days it's easier to have a look on the forums/youtube etc for a solution as someone else has nearly always had the same thing!

But with the ablity to down copy across complete model setting over the net it's gonna make it a lot easier for people to have a near perfect set up with hardly any work, then they can fine tune as needed and perhaps learn from that how the mixes work, So perhaps an easy interface is not so important after all.

But it's gonna open source so surely you will at least have the option for choosing an easy interface or a really flexible one, but as long as the hardware is sound then the really good software will come not from frsky but from people who are passionate about their planes and are prepared to put in the time and effort to write and keep updating the software that people really want.

So I think the tx will be good to start with but be fantastic in 6 months or so.

I will have to get a decent warbird with lots of things to tinker with so I can have the radio announce "gear down and locked".
I wonder if it will announce things like

"you are flying very well today!"
"That was a very nice touch down"
and hopefully not too often
"You appear to have crashed, there is extensive damage to the nose cowling, motor shaft is bent, wings are warped and dented, tail has suffered some damage and your lipo has been punchured and is about to catch fire, oh and your friends are trying very hard not to laugh"
I want to open a little point about "read a manual"

Yes, a simple bird, even a 4ch ... without mixing ... it is damn simple ...no need to read any manual.

But ... when you start to have:
Flapperon, elevons, and all the possible trick that you can make over a multiple servo bird (some maybe have 4 servos on the wings, and 3 servo on the tail) ... in my opinion since nobody is born an aerodynamic expert not even a pilot ... read the manual is mandatory.

With my Futaba, using the basic configuration ... I don't need to use any manual ... but I can only do simple things.

Reading the manual, then you discover all the important information about what a multi servo RC plane can do ... and as well ... it is explained in the heli section, the different issue related to a complex RC helicopter.

So ... no way ... that somebody that is not already familiar with all the technology involved in these areas ... can use any TX without reading a manual.

The manual, for me, the one for futaba, more then an introduction to their way to think about mixing, etc ... it is also an introduction about the possibility and need for control a complex multi servo aeroplane.

So ... the capability to use any TX without reading a manual .. it is a no sense ...

Unless ... you add help function inside every page of the TX, with extensive text explaining what was normally put on a manual ... but ... it is just moving the manual from paper to electronic format.

Tchuss

e_lm_70
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 05:52 AM
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South Africa, WC, Cape Town
Joined Dec 2009
1,402 Posts
37 pagers and no radio yet....

new record?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 06:13 AM
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Romania, Dolj, Craiova
Joined Sep 2007
14,662 Posts
Long road to equal XPS... almost two years, 266 pages and thread closed with no radio.
Then, new thread opened, 6 months, 52 pages and still no radio
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Last edited by renatoa; Oct 23, 2012 at 06:19 AM.
Old Oct 23, 2012, 07:46 AM
Registered User
South Africa, WC, Cape Town
Joined Dec 2009
1,402 Posts
OK heres a question.
After FrSky launch their radio, what frequency coding with it use? DSSS, FHSS, FHDSSS?

then will they still support the FASST systems they've supported?

Because the way I see it, they've made a great name for themselves in the module niche, giving new life to older module radio's in the 2.4 band in a reliabile cost effective way.

To go for a new radio, on their own means they need to challenge on features as well as price
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 08:21 AM
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yorkshire UK
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
I want to open a little point about "read a manual"

Yes, a simple bird, even a 4ch ... without mixing ... it is damn simple ...no need to read any manual.

But ... when you start to have:
Flapperon, elevons, and all the possible trick that you can make over a multiple servo bird (some maybe have 4 servos on the wings, and 3 servo on the tail) ... in my opinion since nobody is born an aerodynamic expert not even a pilot ... read the manual is mandatory.

With my Futaba, using the basic configuration ... I don't need to use any manual ... but I can only do simple things.

Reading the manual, then you discover all the important information about what a multi servo RC plane can do ... and as well ... it is explained in the heli section, the different issue related to a complex RC helicopter.

So ... no way ... that somebody that is not already familiar with all the technology involved in these areas ... can use any TX without reading a manual.

The manual, for me, the one for futaba, more then an introduction to their way to think about mixing, etc ... it is also an introduction about the possibility and need for control a complex multi servo aeroplane.

So ... the capability to use any TX without reading a manual .. it is a no sense ...

Unless ... you add help function inside every page of the TX, with extensive text explaining what was normally put on a manual ... but ... it is just moving the manual from paper to electronic format.

Tchuss

e_lm_70
I must just be a genius then lmfao!
But seriously once you know how surfaces need to move and you understand reflex, camber, crow, elevons, flaps, flaperons, and that they all need a bit of elevator trim mixed in which will in reality need to be adjusted in air then why read the manual every time?
I would point out that I am not using a complicated tx myself but have helped friends with theirs without ever looking at the manual.
I looked at the er9x software and could see that I would definitely need to read some instructions to figure that out though over above the basic set ups!
What I do take notice of is the model instructions ie cog, amount of movement on each surface etc, but again with a mind that I will probably need to change everything once it's maidened to get it how I like it.

Obviously a newbie would need to figure it all out and either read the manual or get some help from someone who knows how it's done or preferably both.

It's all about layer lol, make the top layer easy to setup a basic plane and then delve a bit further to get to the next level.

Boy this forums gonna get very heated before the damn controls even get shown in a picture.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:15 AM
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Austria
Joined Jan 2004
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Originally Posted by nigelsheffield View Post
I must just be a genius then lmfao!
But seriously once you know how surfaces need to move and reflex, camber, crow, elevons, flaps, flaperons, and that they all need a bit of elevator trim mixed in which will in reality need to be adjusted in air then why read the manual every time?
I would point out that I am not using a complicated tx myself but have helped friends with theirs without ever looking at the manual.
I looked at the er9x software and could see that I would definitely need to read some instructions to figure that out though over above the basic set ups!
What I do take notice of is the model instructions ie cog, amount of movement on each surface etc, but again with a mind that I will probably need to change everything once it's maidened to get it how I like it.

Obviously a newbie would need to figure it all out and either read the manual or get some help from someone who knows how it's done or preferably both.

It's all about layer lol, make the top layer easy to setup a basic plane and then delve a bit further to get to the next level.

Boy this forums gonna get very heated before the damn controls even get shown in a picture.
As said ... most of things that I know about "you understand reflex, camber, crow, elevons, flaps, flaperons" ... it is was because I did read in the Futaba TX Manual

You hardly find these info in this RCGroups forum for example ....

Honestly ... even experience pilot may not know all the details of these possible settings ... and if you make a radio for both aeroplane and helicopter ... then the heli world has his 120deg mixing, autorotation, mixing of collective-throttle ... etc etc ...

So ... it make not much sense to speak about a self explaining magic radio .... unless ... you put the manual inside the radio via help page (more or less ... somehow it is what Mr. KK did with KK2.0 control board ... adding helps, and picture about the mutli-copter motor/propeller orientation ... straight in the LCD GUI of the board)

Tchuss

e_lm_70

ps: I hope FrSky can come with a nice HW radio, lot of space for firmware code .... big graphic display .. and a well knows CPU with enough power ... and make it open source ...

pps: I'm impress to see, that while cost of radio RX did collapse (in 2004 a RX could cost around 30€ for a cheap FM one) ... now a RX cost from 9$ .. still the TX price (excluding the 9x radio), are still costing a lot of money ... a huge gap, between HW cost, and sale price ... I hope FrSky, can keep is tradition of high value, high technology ... for ultra cheap price.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:20 AM
Flying a Chipmunk in Portugal
jhsa's Avatar
NRW, Germany
Joined Sep 2010
3,410 Posts
Now we're talkin'
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:47 AM
Registered User
yorkshire UK
Joined Oct 2007
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As said ... most of things that I know about "you understand reflex, camber, crow, elevons, flaps, flaperons" ... it is was because I did read in the Futaba TX Manual

You hardly find these info in this RCGroups forum for example ...


Hey the forums is exactly where I did find out about it all lol!

Now in my opinion---er-erm, oh hang on, I've forgotten what we were arguing about now!

Never mind, yes a big display with pictures on showing what the mix is gonna do to the model is a nice idea, I think someone also mentioned b4 about making the display good enough for a rc sim-going a bit far but nothing is impossible!
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 10:04 AM
throw new IOPilotException();
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Ireland, County Dublin, Dublin
Joined Feb 2005
2,650 Posts
I have a 9C and the manual is great, not only to learn how to use the radio itself but also as a RC guide.

But you pay for that as well.
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