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Old Jan 12, 2013, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Geoff_S View Post
There sure ain't any guarantees in life, and I'd pretty pretty po'd about a stick failure. Jeti look like they're fixing the problem though. But it's a bit of a dream to think the $50 radios are free of quality issus (try searching the 9X thread for "quality" or "broken" and see what I mean - poor soldering, broken PCB tracks, dodgy wiring, etc etc).

Hopefully the FrSky radios will be a lot better quality, for not too much more dollars...
I never said the $50 radios don`t have issues. I was stating that's why some go to the expensive stuff because they do not expect anything to go wrong in terms of manufacture defects. How ever I bet they would expect the sticks to break off on a 9XR but never in a million years a $1300 radio. The most they would expect is programing to be a pain, but quality to be perfect. I said it more than a dozen times I have seen the cheap surprise many and the you get what you pay for crowd hearts get broken when they see their expensive treasure fall apart of fail. Oh you should those faces. Fact is many believe if something is cheap, that means it is junk, like wise if something cost a hell of a lot it only means that`s because it is well made with the finest stuff on earth, which I think is BS.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 02:04 AM
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The sticks breaking off on the Jeti is like the wheel flying off your brand new S- series Benz. How is that going to fly with anyone?
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by s_mack View Post
Really I don't know what the guy is really so upset about. Frustrated maybe... but he uses a key word right in his description of what broke: "prototype". You want to stick your neck out and pay $1200 or whatever for a BY DEFINITION not finalized design... that's your business, but...
No, he does not say he bought a prototype. He said he bought a $1300 TX that with such a defect SHOULD BE a prototype and not a released product. Not happy to be used as beta tester, which is kind of understandable.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 91-ZULU View Post
The sticks breaking off on the Jeti is like the wheel flying off your brand new S- series Benz. How is that going to fly with anyone?
As I had said earlier its possible for this to happen to any manufacturer, even the worlds biggest.

On high profile example: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite...nes_Flight_232
Engine turbine disc failed after a microscopic manufacturing defect gave way.

Plenty of other examples about.

Btw the previous generation merc S-class has many common faults. The early ones are rusting away already. The current generation is 4th worst European design car for second hand reliability. So its wheels may not fall off but you'll be wishing they did!

Si.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 05:52 AM
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I never said the $50 radios don`t have issues. I was stating that's why some go to the expensive stuff because they do not expect anything to go wrong in terms of manufacture defects. How ever I bet they would expect the sticks to break off on a 9XR but never in a million years a $1300 radio.
That's incorrect assumption. This radio has very nice case and everything inside is "clean" - no wires nests. It was designed to be "top" product.

Anyway, don't expect hw cost is the most important part of the price. That radio can do almost anything (like open9x), but is more user friendly - it's not that difficult to program it for people that have minimal computer/similar skills.

Take open9x, how long it took? I, personally, don't know, but it's derived from gruvin9x, which is derived from er9x. HK says fw was 6 years in development.

Several people, spending days and/or nights working on open9x for free.
Say Bertrand spends about 40 hours/week. There are more people, less active. Let's say it gets 100 hours per week together. That's about 35000 hours a year. Which is 210 000 hours during last 6 years. In my country (where JETI is) average cost per software engineer is about 25 $ per hour (employer's expenses, not what employee gets). So, if someone had to pay for open9x, it would be 5 000 000 $. For JETI, someone has to pay it.

My numbers are not completely correct, but should be enough to get you the picture.

I agree such problem with the sticks should not happen, but you can get no guarantee it will never happen.

(This says someone who would not buy DC-16 nor DS-16 even if he won 10 000 000 USD in lottery. So I'm definitely no JETI fan.)
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilrah View Post
He said he bought a $1300 TX that with such a defect SHOULD BE a prototype and not a released product.
thanks to RCG otherwise no one would have known that failure
I understand his frustration because I already have been a guinea pig for others!
I won't buy a 1st release anymore...
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 09:52 AM
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Not only first release... some could resurrect in a batch after many years of manufacturing.

http://planet-soaring.blogspot.co.uk...sue-alert.html

Is there any difference between a broken stick , or unplugged pot connector ? Nope, effect is the same...
And, ironical, is same kind of issue found in 9XR, my own copy is not so severe, as you can see from the movie posted today:

MAQ00716 (0 min 19 sec)
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilrah View Post
No, he does not say he bought a prototype. He said he bought a $1300 TX that with such a defect SHOULD BE a prototype and not a released product. Not happy to be used as beta tester, which is kind of understandable.
Certainly, if that's what he meant I agree.
Quote:
It is sickening, having to pay €1.2k for a prototype which shoudn't have been released without issues like this first sorted out!
To me that reads that he knowingly bought a prototype. But yeah, if he's being sarcastic then I get what you're saying. I admit I only read the one post, not the context.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mihlit View Post
That's incorrect assumption. This radio has very nice case and everything inside is "clean" - no wires nests. It was designed to be "top" product.

Anyway, don't expect hw cost is the most important part of the price. That radio can do almost anything (like open9x), but is more user friendly - it's not that difficult to program it for people that have minimal computer/similar skills.

I agree such problem with the sticks should not happen, but you can get no guarantee it will never happen.

(This says someone who would not buy DC-16 nor DS-16 even if he won 10 000 000 USD in lottery. So I'm definitely no JETI fan.)
Now that`s where you are wrong. Search rc hobby threads and you will see statement after statement where folks say that they will NOT WASTE their money buying cheap stuff. Now what does that mean ? It means that they have decided that buying cheaply will cost them more at some point, because what ever it is that is cheap WILL FAIL from servos to engines, motors you name it, and will fail soon after they buy it. So when they spend 10 ..20 times more that extra is for security that the product that they buy will be free of major issues and will last a long time trouble free. The sticks breaking off of a radio is a MAJOR ISSUE and no one would expect that on a top end radio. However I am sure they would expect something like that to happen on a cheap one.
Now it does not matter how nice the case is or how beautiful the inside is, all that does not matter if the sticks break off in your hand and you watch as your $10,000 Jet go speeding towards the ground. The top notch software and case not going to help then, would it? And I say $10,000 jet because most all the folks that buy top end has top end planes that they fly not $100 foamies. Even on the 9xr thread people state that they would NOT use that radio on their big or expensive planes.
You are right things happen to products at both ends of the price range, but you see statements made by some and they act as though only the cheap stuff has issues.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:08 PM
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91-ZULU: If you think I'm wrong then please share how would you pay for development which is pretty expensive. I'm all ear.

They expect pricey equipment to be better quality, because they know quality does not come cheap. We know what quality of T9X and T9XR is. That's because they are cheap radios. It's not possible to build quality radio for 50 bucks. Quality means testing, time spend on testing every product and time is money. Process with better quality control is always more expensive. Better materials are more expensive. So they don't buy more expensive products, because they know that they get better quality. They buy expensive products, because they know it's not possible to get(build) quality product cheap, so they buy expensive product and hope that manufacturer spent the extra bucks on better materials and quality control (unfortunately, this part is where they are often wrong).
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:49 PM
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$1300/$50 = 26x.

So you get 10x the unit for 26x the price

Guys that "won't buy cheap" are just as guilty as those that only buy the cheapest... both are ignoring the concept of "value" if they are that extremist in their purchase decisions. I find that most people that "buy the best" are doing it simply to show off what they have rather than to get further utility or some fuzzy concept of "quality".

Anyway, both sides of the argument apply and how they apply depends on the case in question. As Zulu already said himself, "you get what you pay for" is one of the most outmoded statements that still exists in our common lexicon. Its simply not true. You pay a lot and sometimes you don't get a lot. You pay a little and sometimes you get way more. The Jeti and the 9x appear to be two cases in point. $1300 for a broken stick doesn't seem like getting what one paid for, while a 9x that's 90% as reliable, 90% as functional, but 1/26th as expensive... appears to be getting more than one paid for.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by renatoa View Post
my own copy is not so severe, as you can see from the movie posted today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AanWWFKG8bQ
That wire *will* eventually break off, it's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when"
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mihlit View Post
91-ZULU: If you think I'm wrong then please share how would you pay for development which is pretty expensive. I'm all ear.

They expect pricey equipment to be better quality, because they know quality does not come cheap. We know what quality of T9X and T9XR is. That's because they are cheap radios. It's not possible to build quality radio for 50 bucks. Quality means testing, time spend on testing every product and time is money. Process with better quality control is always more expensive. Better materials are more expensive. So they don't buy more expensive products, because they know that they get better quality. They buy expensive products, because they know it's not possible to get(build) quality product cheap, so they buy expensive product and hope that manufacturer spent the extra bucks on better materials and quality control (unfortunately, this part is where they are often wrong).
I hear your argument on cost of development, material and the rest, so explain to me how it is that the stick on the Jeti broke off if it is made with the BEST material ? How did it break if R&D is top notch. This is I would say the most important part of the radio. Don`t you think that sometimes some of these companies are full of it just so they could charge a premium for their products that really is not much better than one that is much cheaper. It may look better inside and out but that`s about it. Oh yea and have more bells and whistles that most never use.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 12:21 AM
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I learned about white boxing early in my IT career same with audio equipment,

I look at components and specs and not price...especially in RC.

I will fly a 20k usd jet with the 9x and 9xr as long as they're reliable and tough and forgiving as my other 9x was.

If a flake of paint broke off a 1300usd radio or if it busted the screen the first time it fell of a table or if it made a stupid noise when I turned it on or if the rx mcu's don't hop fast enough on a weak signal and I lock out** I'd be ticked PERIOD...

If I'm going to pay 10x the price of a radio I want 10x reliability, toughness and ease of use etc...

All these things have happened to other rx\tx combos that cost at the least twice as much as the 9x and flysky I've been flying with for a couple of years
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 02:18 AM
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Sorry if this has been asked before, but the telemetry thing is new to me and i am looking into frsky at the moment. I currently have a flysky 9x with 10 rx's - i would like to keep using that module and also have frsky, so i would like to be able to switch between the two. With regards to the x9d and x12d i assume i can do this or am i wrong. With regards to telemetry, when i start using these transmitters (when available of course) can i expect to receive info like voltage and current consumed on the tx display? Apologise again if it sounds repeated or silly, but i have been researching and so far i have come up with the 9xr and frsky module - then hardware mods and/or extra screen hanging off the tx, but atm still wondering if i can have the ability to "switch" between two modules - 1 internal and my existing external flysky module.
Thankyou for any input or direction to get more info.
Mick.
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