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Old May 07, 2012, 10:47 AM
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[QUOTE=Ronald Mong;21541851]
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Originally Posted by webbsolution View Post
Today Kieth and I went out in "unsettled" conditions in BC that means rain then sun then rain - then wind then sun with rainy windy periods. We actually had to wait in the car for the rain to stop for about 30 mins.

I decided to try the X2 with the full compliment of brass ballast. I put it up on the highstart and searched for some lift in the very cloudy (post rain) flying area we were in. Kieth had commented that with his 60 oz Agida it was tough going in these conditions and he was right the lift was really lite or none at all.



' Egida '
I stand corrected - Egida will be used in reference from this point on
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Last edited by webbsolution; May 07, 2012 at 11:33 PM.
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Old May 07, 2012, 11:50 PM
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scoot - float and core modes

Today I took my X2 (3.5) out for some dead air min sink setup. I added a "float" or min sink setup where I throw a switch and my rates are reduced by 35% and my camber drops 1.5 mm.

I was trying to achieve the reported better float over the standard 3.5 and was not actually expecting to get it but I have to admit it really can out float the previous version with some careful tuning. I am not sure I will keep the d/r reduction but the camber setup was perfect after a click of down trim. The plane just seemed to cruise in nice stable circles.

Out of float mode and into "normal" the plane moves much better than the previous Xplorer. I know Mr Lee reported no difference but on my ship its a new experience to ping off and see the plane really covering ground in section without any pushing of the nose. Hit reflex and it picks up speed and you are well on your way to whatever lift you need to get to or returning home to the LZ -

As I stated before the new airfoil responds much better to camber inoputs and you can experiment in lift with fairly significant camber input.

This last weekend I went to Seattle to fly with my friends down south and had a couple rounds where I simply was coing in way too early and need to hang and etend the clock. I pulled full flaps and just a little on the stick and the aircraft just kind of pulled up and halted for an easy 2.5 seconds and then i tucked the flaps away and it settled into the LZ groove like I had never even slowed down...landing these Xplorers is so damn easy.
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Old May 09, 2012, 07:07 PM
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99 oz X2 anyone ?

OK update - I took the MK II out in really windy conditions today. I would not have flown on a day like this but I recently read LJ's reports about wind and ballast so I saw it as a challenge It was!

We had high winds (for our area) and very active lift and sink cycles - I have not seen it this active this early in my life. It was much like Colorado. I took some shots that ill update later if possible.

The wind appeared at ground level to be blowing 16-20 MPH and aloft it seemed to be a lot more. I loaded the X2 up with brass ballast (20 oz) and launched it with a 50 foot hosemonster and 100 feet of mono - The plane was still being tossed around a lot - lift was still managable but it would be a chore getting home and I was not even at J launch Alt. It was hard to keep the model tracking at 79 oz and if you were not really moving you could get squashed by the powerful sink cycles...I expect both LJ AND Tuomo to jump in and say "I told you!" The X2 is too lite..but read on...

So I landed and stuck the 30 oz tungsten in - Bam ! new model! The added pilot load did not go 100% away but it settled right down and I immediately went to what seemed like a large thermic infill downwind, hit it and spec'd so fast all I could say was "wow wt_"! I dropped out of the lift - screamed down and did it from 15 feet in another smaller thermal. I did that a few times in that launch and the X2 had zero issues coming home. I barely even used reflex accept when I was flundering in sink and needed GTH out of it.

One ntoe so far which seems odd compared to the previous design was that I moved the CG forward from 115 to some unkown setting and it seemed to respond much better - I could probably add some more rudder and aileron throws for this mode as well.
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Old May 10, 2012, 09:38 AM
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If it takes 30 ounces to make this design fly in this wind that does not impress me. One month ago I flew my Perfect SSL in a two day contest with 8 ounces of ballast in 17mph wind measured on the ground easily making 10 minute round times.
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Old May 10, 2012, 10:01 AM
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Webbi,

You guys should all once fly an F3B contest, then you would be much more relaxed with your ballast choices. 100 ounces for such a big plane on a windy day does not sound heavy to me.

At the world cup in Orlando this year we were flying duration on the windy day with the full brass ballast (this makes 3.3kg for a plane with 54-56dm^2 wing area with much more slippery airfoils).

The planes did not feel too heavy and the weight was necessary to get some range. I better don't mention how heavy the planes were flown for distance and speed.


Reto


PS:
My first F3B plane was around 100 ounces and they flew the 10min duration task just fine.
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Old May 10, 2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith Kindrick View Post
If it takes 30 ounces to make this design fly in this wind that does not impress me. One month ago I flew my Perfect SSL in a two day contest with 8 ounces of ballast in 17mph wind measured on the ground easily making 10 minute round times.

Thats ok - this plane is selling like hot cakes and its because it performs - the point in making this post was that as a rule this kind of wind would be problematic for the Xplorer (not impossible) but its a non issue to me now. In the past I experiemented with other models for wind - Tragi 801 and an orca - but it made no sense to have a model in my kit I only used 3 times a year. So I sold them off.

I will admit that Perfects have great wind penetration - but they lack a lot of other areas for me persoanlly - Its an old design after all.

By the way what is your SL AUW ? as long as we are making references to it?

Yesterdays winds aloft were probably closer to 35 mph or more. Ground gusts and thermal infills saw momentary periods above 25 so the comparison is a little off.

With 20 oz the plane flew and penetrated and went up (really fast) but with my setup (not even 3 weeks old) I wanted to see how well it handled the full load of tungsten. I could have easily just used 20 and made some CG adjustments as I think I was too far back for that AUW and did so with the Tungsten.
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Old May 10, 2012, 10:19 AM
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I didn't realize they made a Perfect that weighs 59 oz.
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Old May 10, 2012, 10:22 AM
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great minds thinking alike...(you and Kieth)

Reto,

I was thinking that same thing yesterday as well! "I should get some B experience" but there is zero support for it in my area...I would have to go to cali or something. Thats a long ways off.

Keith who was flying an Egida (note spelling) was having fun with the wind - he is a slope junkie and scolded me for not getting to the slope to really get used to high winds...

You are both right...but if I take on any more contest or R/C soaring activities I might have a family mutiny!
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Old May 10, 2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Kindrick View Post
If it takes 30 ounces to make this design fly in this wind that does not impress me. One month ago I flew my Perfect SSL in a two day contest with 8 ounces of ballast in 17mph wind measured on the ground easily making 10 minute round times.
Keith, how much does your Perfect SSL weigh without ballast? If it is in the mid 70 ounce range then you already have a 15 ounce head start on Web's 60 ounce MKII.

The other thing that is tough about comparing ballast and wind speeds are you don't really know what the winds are aloft. Measured ground speeds really don't mean that much. Also, wind speed is not the only determining factor in ballast selection. Turbulence, strength of the lift, frequency of the cycles, flying style etc. all come into play.

All that matters is that you have the ability to ballast the model to get it to fly the way you want in all the conditions you plan on flying in. Flying at the FAI wind limit (12 m/s measured 2 meters above the ground) I would want the option of being able to ballast a 3.5 meter F3J model up to at least 3.5 kg. However, I would more likely select an F3B model to fly in those kinds of winds. . .

FWIW
Tom
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Old May 10, 2012, 10:58 AM
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My SSL ET weighs 1700 grams ready to fly. I find it comical that it is referred to as such an old design. If it is so lacking why did the same wing plan form get used with a re-spin for a new model?
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Old May 10, 2012, 11:21 AM
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My SSL ET weighs 1700 grams ready to fly. I find it comical that it is referred to as such an old design. If it is so lacking why did the same wing plan form get used with a re-spin for a new model?
1700 is good for a Perfect - thats my full strength weight !

someone has an age sensitivity...

The Perfect is 7 years old - or more ? I remember Jim and and Conner Laurel flying them in Seattle i think in 2005 ? In airframe years thats what like 80?

Anyways, I wont comment on why Samba recycled the airfoil. They have made consistently good airframes and thier decisions are thier own. I flew the perfect in Turkey - I wont slag it but cant avoid the fact that its old.

The new design is sexy and about the same weight with less span than the ET SL as I observed with Arend Borst's perfection build so again heavier than other SL's of its time - (Supra - Xplorer - Maxa) but I digress -

This is the MK II thread - its a bright day, the wind is gone - and I can carve out some time to grab some lift with my MK II

IF the rest of you could start posting CG's lets get our heads together on this - I am at 115 but will experiement today a bit.
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Old May 10, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Have a great day Dave - I'll let you continue on with your MK2 commercial

Bye bye
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Old May 10, 2012, 12:23 PM
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Have a great day Dave - I'll let you continue on with your MK2 commercial

Bye bye
hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! Awesome
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Old May 10, 2012, 12:35 PM
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Dave,
New is good, but the Perfect is still a very good airplane. The Pike ET is about 4% better than the original Pike. Philip is having quite a run with his designs. I am thinking the Prestige is really not much better than an ET on paper but certainly does have advantages in handling. New does not mean better..I mean the Vulture and Egida are new !!!!!! And you won't see many of those in South Africa. I watched Alp Tashkent in very windy conditions outlaunch and wallop several X2 pilots in Bulgaria. One thing to remember when practicing in high winds at 3 kilos is come back to the circle with plenty of safe altitude to get the landing...and be careful the ground is still just as hard and punishing if you mess up your landing. I would never underestimate, a guy flying a Supra, Perfect, or Stork....you might get your a$$ handed to you..........
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Old May 10, 2012, 12:45 PM
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Not to mention even older designs such as the Sharon, Stratos, Tragi 701, or Escape. In the right hands, all these models are capable of winning. . .

Tom
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