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Old Apr 19, 2012, 09:13 PM
Gravity is patient............
Joined Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by Michael in Toronto View Post
I am a conservative, but in no way do I believe Obama is a Marxist, let alone whatever you think a devout Marxist is.

And, whatever size you think Ron Paul would want the USA government to be, it would still be relatively huge.

Be pragmatic, and don't believe the rhetoric.
Ok so what you are saying is I should ignore the meaning of the words coming out of their mouths, and just vote for whoever looks better on TV. Thanks for the advice.

Question. Do you think Obama is trying to fundamentally transform America? Do you think the healthcare reform bill will change the country at all? Do you think that gas and oil prices skyrocketing have anything to do with Obama's words "under my policies, energy prices will necessarily skyrocket". Are these just coincedences? Or am I not being pragmatic enough?

I suppose there were a lot of German people who thought Hitler was a blowhard and watched with pragmatic amazement when he followed through with his plans to create a race of superhumans and take over the world.

Sometimes words mean what they mean. Weird concept I know.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 09:35 PM
Gravity is patient............
Joined Mar 2006
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Speaking of devout marxists here is a fairly recent list of socialists (Socialists are communists that haven't come out yet) in our government. There's probably alot more now but this will do for a start.

Vote them out!

The Socialist Party of America announced in their October 2009 newsletter the names of the Congressional democrats that currently belong to their caucus.

Q: How many members of the U.S. Congress are also members of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)?
A: Seventy (70)

Q: Who are these members of Congress?
A: See the listing below:

Co-Chairs:
Hon. Raúl M. Grijalva (AZ-07),
Hon. Lynn Woolsey (CA-06)

Vice Chairs:
Hon. Diane Watson (CA-33)
Hon. Sheila Jackson-Lee (TX-18)
Hon. Mazie Hirono (HI-02)
Hon. Dennis Kucinich (OH-10) OOPS! He was just primaried...by whom?!

Senate Members:
Hon. Bernie Sanders (VT)

House Members (in alphabetical order):
Hon. Neil Abercrombie (HI-01)
Hon. Tammy Baldwin (WI-02)
Hon. Xavier Becerra (CA-31)
Hon. Madeleine Bordallo (GU-AL)
Hon. Robert Brady (PA-01)
Hon. Corrine Brown (FL-03)
Hon. Michael Capuano (MA-08)
Hon. André Carson (IN-07)
Hon. Donna Christensen (VI-AL)
Hon. Yvette Clarke (NY-11)
Hon. William “Lacy” Clay (MO-01)
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver (MO-05)
Hon. Steve Cohen (TN-09)
Hon. John Conyers (MI-14)
Hon. Elijah Cummings (MD-07)
Hon. Danny Davis (IL-07)
Hon. Peter DeFazio (OR-04)
Hon. Rosa DeLauro (CT-03)
Rep. Donna F. Edwards (MD-04)
Hon. Keith Ellison (MN-05)
Hon. Sam Farr (CA-17)
Hon. Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
Hon. Bob Filner (CA-51)
Hon. Barney Frank (MA-04)
Hon. Marcia L. Fudge (OH-11)
Hon. Alan Grayson (FL-08)
Hon. Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
Hon. John Hall (NY-19)
Hon. Phil Hare (IL-17)
Hon. Maurice Hinchey (NY-22)
Hon. Michael Honda (CA-15)
Hon. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-02)
Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson (TX-30)
Hon. Hank Johnson (GA-04)
Hon. Marcy Kaptur (OH-09)
Hon. Carolyn Kilpatrick (MI-13)
Hon. Barbara Lee (CA-09)
Hon. John Lewis (GA-05)
Hon. David Loebsack (IA-02)
Hon. Ben R. Lujan (NM-3)
Hon. Carolyn Maloney (NY-14)
Hon. Ed Markey (MA-07)
Hon. Jim McDermott (WA-07)
Hon. James McGovern (MA-03)
Hon. George Miller (CA-07)
Hon. Gwen Moore (WI-04)
Hon. Jerrold Nadler (NY-08)
Hon. Eleanor Holmes-Norton (DC-AL)
Hon. John Olver (MA-01)
Hon. Ed Pastor (AZ-04)
Hon. Donald Payne (NJ-10)
Hon. Chellie Pingree (ME-01)
Hon. Charles Rangel (NY-15)
Hon. Laura Richardson (CA-37)
Hon. Lucille Roybal-Allard (CA-34)
Hon. Bobby Rush (IL-01)
Hon. Linda Sánchez (CA-47)
Hon. Jan Schakowsky (IL-09)
Hon. José Serrano (NY-16)
Hon. Louise Slaughter (NY-28)
Hon. Pete Stark (CA-13)
Hon. Bennie Thompson (MS-02)
Hon. John Tierney (MA-06)
Hon. Nydia Velazquez (NY-12)
Hon. Maxine Waters (CA-35)
Hon. Mel Watt (NC-12)
Hon. Henry Waxman (CA-30)
Hon. Peter Welch (VT-AL)
Hon. Robert Wexler (FL-19)

BONUS ROUND
Q: How many of the DSA members sit on the House Judiciary Committee?
A: There are 23 Democrats on the Judiciary Committee of which eleven, almost half, are currently members of the DSA. They are as follows:

John Conyers [Chairman of the Judiciary Committee],
Tammy Baldwin,
Jerrold Nadler,
Luis Gutierrez,
Melvin Watt,
Maxine Waters,
Hank Johnson,
Steve Cohen,
Barbara Lee,
Robert Wexler,
Linda Sanchez
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by billyd60 View Post
How can you like both Obama and Paul? I'm having trouble making the connection. One is a devout marxist the other a small government isolationist with original constitutional interpretation as his bible. They're so far apart on the issues they're from different planets.

Now I'm convinced you're just on here messing with people.
Actually it -IS- possible to like both of them. You can like Obama for not being as bad as GWB, and actually helping pull the economy out of recession. You can also like Ron Paul for being (mostly) intellectually consistent in his political positions. And for bonus points you can give Ron Paul credit for not being anywhere near as terrible as every single other GOP presidential candidate. Hell, even I like Ron Paul. I think his policies are wrong, backwards, and in many cases he's racist... but at least he's open about it, and consistent.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by billyd60 View Post

1. Ok so what you are saying is I should ignore the meaning of the words coming out of their mouths, and just vote for whoever looks better on TV. Thanks for the advice.

2. Question. Do you think Obama is trying to fundamentally transform America?

3. Do you think the healthcare reform bill will change the country at all?

4. Do you think that gas and oil prices skyrocketing have anything to do with Obama's words "under my policies, energy prices will necessarily skyrocket". Are these just coincedences? Or am I not being pragmatic enough?

5. I suppose there were a lot of German people who thought Hitler was a blowhard and watched with pragmatic amazement when he followed through with his plans to create a race of superhumans and take over the world.

6. Sometimes words mean what they mean. Weird concept I know.

1. No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that I do not believe that Obama is a Marxist. Obama may believe that some social programs would benefit the USA, but that doesn't mean he is a Marxist.

2. Yes. Many presidents want to make fundamental changes.

3. I don't know much about the US health care issues, but I do know, that here in Canada, our socialized medicare, warts and all, is a pretty good system, and out majority Conservative government wouldn't dare change a thing.

4. Gasoline prices rise due to market forces and market manipulation. Obama's words have very little impact.

5. Comparing Obama with Hitler, or suggesting that one can compare supporting Obama to the rise of Nazism, is not the most intelligent political argument one should use.

6. I am a Canadian conservative. If I lived in the US, I would be leaning towards voting for Romney, but I would be naive if I painted Obama into such extremes. I respect President Obama, and believe his intentions are good; I just like Romney's policies better (including his 'Romney-care'), and that's why I would vote for him.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 11:09 PM
E-flyer since 1981
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Originally Posted by billyd60 View Post
Socialists are communists that haven't come out yet...
Your hypothesis is wrong, therefor the rest of your post is likely wrong too.
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Old Apr 19, 2012, 11:19 PM
AustinTatious
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Hurst, Texas, United States
Joined Jul 2003
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle View Post
Actually it -IS- possible to like both of them. You can like Obama for not being as bad as GWB, and actually helping pull the economy out of recession. You can also like Ron Paul for being (mostly) intellectually consistent in his political positions. And for bonus points you can give Ron Paul credit for not being anywhere near as terrible as every single other GOP presidential candidate. Hell, even I like Ron Paul. I think his policies are wrong, backwards, and in many cases he's racist... but at least he's open about it, and consistent.

pretty strong accusation there... Calling somone racist with nothing to back it up with. Care to provide ANY evidence to support that ubsurd accusation?
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinTatious View Post
pretty strong accusation there... Calling somone racist with nothing to back it up with. Care to provide ANY evidence to support that ubsurd accusation?
http://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/...w/print/442766
Quote:
The controversial statements that have surfaced stem largely from this period. They were contained in newsletters with titles like Ron Paul’s Freedom Report, the Ron Paul Political Report, the Ron Paul Survival Report, and the Ron Paul Investment Letter, rarely under a byline (although many contained first-person references that readers would assume referred to Paul himself).

Some samples: A December 1989 newsletter quoted by James Kirchick in the New Republic predicted "Racial Violence Will Fill Our Cities" because "mostly black welfare recipients will feel justified in stealing from mostly white 'haves.' "

Another letter said "I think we can assume that 95 percent of the black men in that city [Washington] are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."
http://www.salon.com/2007/06/02/ron_paul_6/singleton/
Quote:
Then he takes a rather un-presidential jab at the appearance of many TSA screeners, a workforce heavily populated by minorities and immigrants. “We quadrupled the TSA, you know, and hired more people who look more suspicious to me than most Americans who are getting checked,” he says. “Most of them are, well, you know, they just don’t look very American to me. If I’d have been looking, they look suspicious … I mean, a lot of them can’t even speak English, hardly. Not that I’m accusing them of anything, but it’s sort of ironic.”
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 12:33 AM
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"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Joe Biden

I guess Biden is a racist?
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 12:53 AM
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Yeah, that's actually kinda racist to imply that Obama's the first clean black person. Certainly not as bad as claiming that TSA agents are illegal immigrants, or that all black people are criminals.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 01:35 AM
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The answer to the question in the OP is almost certainly no.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by billyd60 View Post
How can you like both Obama and Paul? I'm having trouble making the connection. One is a devout marxist the other a small government isolationist with original constitutional interpretation as his bible. They're so far apart on the issues they're from different planets.

Now I'm convinced you're just on here messing with people.
You have to read the posts we make AND understand them - Ron Paul is 'the only G O P candidate' with anything going on upstairs!

I don't 'like' Obama - I get this a lot down here - I just say he's the best you have going on presently and FAR (far far far FARRRRRRRRRRRR far ) better than the man he followed!
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 02:29 AM
Build/Fly/Crash/Repeat
United States, HI, Kapalua
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Originally Posted by leccyflyer View Post
The answer to the question in the OP is almost certainly no.
RP doesn't have a chance. Well, maybe the usual 2% Libertarian part.

Those who continue to express this "hope" don't have a clear understanding of how few support him.

This upcoming election becomes more of a toss-up as each day passes. This is of course contrary to what so many in this forum express, but then they are hardly representative of the demographics of the US as a whole.

There is still a long way to go and much can & probably will happen.

Ron Paul won't be a part of it.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 05:01 AM
We want... Information!
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Hastings, New Zealand
Joined Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
Paul is out of it

Pity as he's the only GOP runner with anything going on!
Yes, it is a pity.

Ron Paul believes in many things that would transform America - tiny government, no reserve bank, no foreign military, no foreign aid, no airport security, no income tax, all borders closed, money replaced with a speculative commodity, quack medicine, more unwanted babies, weakened eduction system, more industrial pollution etc. In short, a weak, isolationist country that would keep out of our way and not cause any trouble!

Sadly, few Americans are brave (or stupid) enough to support Ron Paul's radical agenda. Which is a pity, because the antics of President Paul would have been great entertainment.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 08:01 AM
It's 5 O'clock Somewhere
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle View Post
Actually it -IS- possible to like both of them. You can like Obama for not being as bad as GWB, and actually helping pull the economy out of recession.
Only if you ignore the reality of the situation and his policies. Our economy has slightly lifted off of the bottom inspite of the Obama policies. I think we could've been much further ahead than where we are now if we actually had pro business & pro growth policies in place. Plans like cash for clunkers, the stimulus bill, billions on alternative energy and the housing credits have done nothing to help the economy or to build long term jobs.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 08:03 AM
It's 5 O'clock Somewhere
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Dayton, OH
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Originally Posted by CoastalFlyer View Post
RP doesn't have a chance. Well, maybe the usual 2% Libertarian part.

Those who continue to express this "hope" don't have a clear understanding of how few support him.

This upcoming election becomes more of a toss-up as each day passes. This is of course contrary to what so many in this forum express, but then they are hardly representative of the demographics of the US as a whole.

There is still a long way to go and much can & probably will happen.

Ron Paul won't be a part of it.
I completely agree with this.
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