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Old Apr 17, 2012, 02:41 PM
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United States, TX, Grand Prairie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron101 View Post
...There is a huge lack of large sport jets and the cost is high...Spark, Electra, Ebandit..
and

Quote:
...It seems us jet guys get screwed, put jet on it and the price goes up huge..... with so many Habus sold....my flying fields are in love with EDF jets... price it right and you will sell tons

+1 on both points no doubt
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 02:42 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
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Ron 101 the BVM jets are made in Thailand not Taiwan Republic of China.
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CRCJA View Post
....but affordable at $800 to $1200 is not going to fly off the shelf as you claim....
Yeap, study the retail take rate on the larger jets and it's around 4-600 air ready....people pay more for Habus!!!!!

If the goal is to sell a popular model people can afford then TRIONE (PCMIIW) has made it pretty hard for people to look away on all sorts of non scale models. If someone wants to put a system in place that can bust 200mph on a shallow dive then that's cool but there shouldn't be the only option...

Graduate the air ready prices and have a popular model...some people have more time than money...

The air ready price of a Falcon 120 is 450 shipped, 127mm fan, 14lbs of thrust, ~5000 watts, servos, aluminum wheels and struts with brakes! (less kick a** looking nacelle)

It'd be nice to have other options even for 50% more in price
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Getmore Rc View Post
...Does the ARF not count as the main frame too which one starts with? Why do you look for cheap? Maybe it is from being cheap to begain with,..
I don't think people are looking for low quality at high prices, good quality at low prices are nice.

I agree with a poster in this thread; put "jet" on anything and the price doubles
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 03:58 PM
My project: FAIREY DELTA 1
Erik v. Schaik's Avatar
Uden Volkel, Netherlands
Joined Dec 2003
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Hi Rainer,
The best one could wish for it a STOL aircraft, especially on european grass fields. High speed planes and STOLL are hard to mix.
I myself would't be interested in ARF. I rather would prefer a short kit like the Eli but at a more edf optimised airframe. IMO bifurcated intakes is not ideal for edf.
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 04:18 PM
My project: FAIREY DELTA 1
Erik v. Schaik's Avatar
Uden Volkel, Netherlands
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Belluomini View Post
Rainer I think a large size 90mm sport jet would be most popular.
It could be sized similar to the original BVM Viper and Aggressor and use an 8S to 12S 90mm power system.
Add my name to such an order list.
Bob
Hehe, originally intended for 90mm SHV but went for a sm110-52. This version is still a testbed and the 1st protofuse will be redesigned strucure for high power 90mm . as far as I know still the biggest composite 90mm edf jet. I wanted to make a plug which was 5+ years ahead of it's time but technology already catched up LOL!!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...132040&page=11

last testflight 2 weeks ago:
FD1 Testflug mit angelenktem HR (2 min 3 sec)
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 04:55 PM
ReVolt- Proprietary Insanity
geostomp's Avatar
United States, MI, Wixom
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This thread is crazy
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 05:16 PM
Pursuit of Happiness
Ron101's Avatar
Brentwood, California
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Why is it that the price of the ARF matters than the rest of the gear? Why will one pay $600.00 for some wheels and brake and struts? Why will you pay $800.00 for a fan and motor and esc? Why will one pay $200.00 for a cool looking pilot? Why why why?
Does the ARF not count as the main frame too which one starts with? Why do you look for cheap? Maybe it is from being cheap to begain with,

Bill
The airframe does matter... I just feel when you look at the Habu 32 and all the great ARFS out there from Top Flight, Hanger 9, Eflite, Great Planes, the list goes on. There has to be a way to make a lower cost large sport jet

Why will we pay so much for the gear to put in it? I was throwning some numbers out there....
it doesn't mean you can't find a used fan, buy a cheaper motor like the scorpion and hyperion.... run a hobby king ESC
Grab some sring air or robart retracts , robostruts or just wires, cheaper wheels... you can shop around and keep the budget tight. Have seen many do it on prop planes, budget tight and make it work nice...

The big picture is we have very limited options for sport jets at this point in the game... I'm shocked really. When glow ducted fan was in it's hay day there where more options for them than us.... and we have a much better power system


Quote:
Ron 101 the BVM jets are made in Thailand not Taiwan Republic of China.
fair enough, I knew in Asia , not the US like so many believe.... I have to laugh when people say there made in America ( I hear that alot)
I hear they come out of the same factory as Comp ARF and I would believe that based on the glass work I've seen on each kit

My Jet Legend 1/6 Hawk is all glass, light lay up for EDF and was $1000 bucks for the airframe. Huge plane for the cost..... To me it's the best deal out there and why I bought one.
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 05:54 PM
wannabe Jet guy
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Green Valley, AZ
Joined Aug 2004
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Prices

Bill,

My intent is not to call people names or label them. Reiner asked for suggestions on what we would look for in a plane and one of the first replies was to make it a lot less expensive than a BV jet. I can assure you that if the jet was made and it was only a couple hundred less, at that point it would not matter, people (me) would pay the extra 200.00 and get the real deal. My comments are geared as to what it would take FOR ME to buy such a plane. I have never paid 200.00 for a pilot nor do I intent to do so, I have paid more than you mention for a Schubi Fan, ESC and motor and the motor went back to Germany to make sure there was no dirt in it. It's been 5 years and that motor has never returned, so I will never buy that Brand. YES, I currently only use High end ESC from Castle and but that is where I draw the line. Those are personal choices, the Sniper XL is priced under $500.00 and that is where this discussion started from, people wanting a bigger Sniper in a 120 size, Not all planes can be made in Asia, BUT for my purchasing dollars, I say make it affordable.

Ralph


Quote:
Originally Posted by Getmore Rc View Post
Why is it that the price of the ARF matters than the rest of the gear? Why will one pay $600.00 for some wheels and brake and struts? Why will you pay $800.00 for a fan and motor and esc? Why will one pay $200.00 for a cool looking pilot? Why why why?
Does the ARF not count as the main frame too which one starts with? Why do you look for cheap? Maybe it is from being cheap to begain with,

Bill
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 06:29 PM
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United States, TX, Grand Prairie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRCJA View Post
...Not all planes can be made in Asia, BUT for my purchasing dollars, I say make it affordable.

Ralph
I believe this can be done in the US, people glass driver boxes for 10usd an hour in some audio shops and are happy doing without molds...all custom stuff.

I know a couple of kit makers who have really decent stuff in the 4-600 range but limit the number of models built.
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 06:35 PM
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USA, CA, Marina del Rey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRCJA View Post
Bill,

My intent is not to call people names or label them. Reiner asked for suggestions on what we would look for in a plane and one of the first replies was to make it a lot less expensive than a BV jet. I can assure you that if the jet was made and it was only a couple hundred less, at that point it would not matter, people (me) would pay the extra 200.00 and get the real deal. My comments are geared as to what it would take FOR ME to buy such a plane. I have never paid 200.00 for a pilot nor do I intent to do so, I have paid more than you mention for a Schubi Fan, ESC and motor and the motor went back to Germany to make sure there was no dirt in it. It's been 5 years and that motor has never returned, so I will never buy that Brand. YES, I currently only use High end ESC from Castle and but that is where I draw the line. Those are personal choices, the Sniper XL is priced under $500.00 and that is where this discussion started from, people wanting a bigger Sniper in a 120 size, Not all planes can be made in Asia, BUT for my purchasing dollars, I say make it affordable.

Ralph

but the sniper xl is 90mm the price has to go up as the size goes up doesn't it?

how much does it cost to build a sapac hawk? i remember back then I spent around $700 on mine without going crazy on parts and it was a 70mm

It doesn't matter what the cost of the airframe is if your trying to build a 127mm and you want to do it properly with half decent (new) parts that work you will be looking at $1500+ in fan, motor, batts, servo's etc alone

so if my option at that point is an airframe that costs $500 fly's ok, is a little heavy and lacks support around the landing gear rails (cheap wood) to take hundreds of flights etc or an airframe that costs $1100 and fly's very well with a wide flight envelope, is easy to land light and lasts a good long time then sign me up.

the issue i think is that people are so used to a plane having a limited life span because of the poor quality, poor flight characteristics as soon as you make the slightest mistake you loose your investment,

thats why I think the habu 32 sells so well, people know that they can buy it buy the parts and fly it, they know that they can handle it, they know they will get to take it home week after week.

I have gotten to a point now where i'm sick of being the test pilot for Asian built planes, i'm sick of having a plane that handles like crap because it was designed and built to a budget and i've come to realize that you can either keep throwing a few hundred dollars here and there at planes that won't last or you can save some cash and buy something worth owning that you will own and consistently fly and land week after week, then once your done with it you sell it on and get a good amount of your cash back (some guys at my field helped with this realization, you know who you are, and thanks)

look back over the last few years and think of how much you have spent on edf's, I guarantee that for most people who would be looking to buy a 127mm they have already spent spark money on flaming Chinese wrecks most of which are probably long since gone, while that guy at your field who spends "so much on planes" is still carrying his spark home each night.

there are plenty of companies who can make us rubbish, lets have a couple more who can make us real legends!
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 06:46 PM
Bypass Ratio = Infinity
scatsob's Avatar
United States, NC, Jacksonville
Joined Apr 2006
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I'm going to have to agree with Ron and CRCJA. Since this hobby thrives on disposable income and personal preference then the price of the airframe means everything. If you want a $7k electric BVM is the ticket. I have very little hobby money and even less time, so an inexpensive 120mm airframe is right up my alley. I started the 120mm Sniper thread for this reason. I know it would not be ideal, but if HET did nothing more than upscale the Sniper XL to 120mm and made no changes and priced it at $600, I would buy it. And I guarantee it would sell well. Anyways, here is what I pay for internals. 120mm fan, motor, and ESC for $370. $100 for wheels and retracts (who needs brakes). And $200 more for servos and batteries. That’s the entire guts of a 120mm jet for less than the EVF unit by itself. Is it ideal?.....no. But it will fly great for as long as I can keep it out of the ground.
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 06:57 PM
Pursuit of Happiness
Ron101's Avatar
Brentwood, California
Joined Jul 2007
7,255 Posts
I have a Spark... they are very nice. But it only fits 110mm and is a bit smaller than and electra.

We want a little bigger than the electra...close to Bandit size and 128mm fans
The Habu is made in Asia and the quality is nice.... it's not perfect but nice.
That's all I'm asking for Habu 32 quality...not looking for nitro planes quality

I say $700 to $800 bucks ( I keep getting lower ) I would love to be part of a project like this....because I personally think it will do very well. But you have to keep the quality good like Hanger 9 and Eflite have done.

BVM is over the top.... if you have the money and want the best, they win hands down. I have looked over many of there airframes over the years and there almost to nice to fly
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 07:16 PM
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USA, CA, Marina del Rey
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I agree bvm is over the top, the spark is a good price but it deffinately hurts to pay it for a 110mm the issue is that the very low end manufacturers will most likely never be able to make a 120mm sport jet that costs around $300 that's really worth the time it takes to build. even with your pricing which is unrealistic, (you can't buy 10cell lipo and servos that will hold the surfaces for a 120mm for $200) your still going to be paying over $1000 and I promise it will fly like complete junk, why not add a few dollars to the airframe with all your components and have a nice flyer?
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 07:17 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015 , May 28-31
Kevin Cox's Avatar
St. Louis Intl, Missouri, United States
Joined Jan 1997
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I think in the glow ducted fan days you had more builders and that gave designers/manufacturers more options. These days, as model assemblers, we expect higher quality stuff with tech support to boot, but we also want it cheap. In most cases it isn't possible.

I think from the business side a 120mm sport jet would work if you could bundle it with a working 120mm fan combo. For me a large 90mm (12S) would be my choice. super light wingloading and sleek low drag design.
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