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Old Oct 26, 2003, 10:20 PM
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Profi 4000 Programming Questions

I am starting this thread for those with a Profi 4000. Ask your question here and maybe someone will answer it. You can go to www.rc-soar.com for tips. It is a great site for the Mulitplex user. I will start it off with a question of my own.

What is the best way to setup flaps to work in concert and opposition to the elevator. This is on a Tantrum that needs ailerons to move down when doing maneuvers such as harriers and to move up on other maneuvers.

I was thinking of assiging the 2 aileron servos to the butterfly mix. I would then setup one flight mode where they ailerons move up and down with the elevator, another where they move opposite the elevator and the default mode where they only act as ailerons.

Bobby
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Old Oct 27, 2003, 03:10 AM
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This is a mix I use regularly. The mix itself can not be part of a flight mode since modes affect only control menu parameters, but if assigned to the same switch widget as the mode is then it happens at the same time as the mode change.

Since you want two mixes we have a choice of switch implementation. The immediate easy answer is to use 2 different widgets but that allows for both to be on at the same time, thus cancelling each other out, plus you have to memorise which switch does what. The better solution is to put it on a 3 pos widget with centre off then it is impossible to have both mixes ON at the same time. Say widget up = flaps up with up ele and widget down = flaps down with up ele.

The 4000 by default recognises secondary switches as 2 pos and will interpret a 3 pos as a 2 pos (control widgets are correctly interpreted as 3 pos). You need to tell the 4000 that it is a 3 pos widget and you do this by assigning a Transfer switch (menu 2, switches) to that widget. From now on that widget can be assigned to parameters either by its widget label of S01-S12 for 2 pos interpretation, or by one of its Transfer states T1-X for 3 pos interpretation. Where you would assign a widget by S01 and manipulate the * to indicate ON position, you assign a T switch by its actual position T1-1, T1-2 or T1-3 and then * it. Adding the * means it will be ON at that pos and OFF at the other 2 pos, if you donít * it then it will be OFF at that pos and ON at the other 2 pos! IIRC T1-1 is switch down and T1-3 is switch up.

To do the mix input the elevator into the aileron servomix twice. Assign one input to T1-1* and one input to T1-3*. Then change the servo travel values to get the mix that you want.

H
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Old Oct 27, 2003, 09:46 AM
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HarryC,
Thanks for the info. Now I know why I couldn't change the curve when I was switching flight modes, since it only affect control menu parameters. I had properly setup a 3 pos switch, so now I just need to create my widget.

Thanks,
Bobby
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Old Oct 27, 2003, 10:17 AM
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In the Profi radios a switch may be plugged into a control socket or a secondary socket, so a switch is one or other but not both. The Evo makes no such distinction so a switch may be the flap/retract/rate/expo all in one. So has it got an advantage over the Profi? Never! With a bit of lateral thinking there is no problem having a combined control secondary switch on a Profi. Simply add a double pole rather than a single pole switch, with two wiring harnesses, plug one into a secondary socket and one into a control socket. I wouldnít put two harnesses onto a single pole switch just in case there is some crosstalk or voltage drop that has unexpected consequences.

I drill or cut the case for the widgets that I want, where I want. Solder a servo lead with JR plug on to the widget and plug it in. My timer uses a push button with a bright red top in one of the official switch holes. On the left side I have fitted a micro slider switch, and a push button, where my forefinger naturally rests. I am considering fitting a rotary proportional lever pinched from an old JR set to the side or rear, for things like brakes where again my left forefinger can easily operate it. But are the inputs G onwards just switchable or are they proportional? A quick bench test with the JR rotary control showed that all the 4000ís control inputs are fully proportional so you can fit whatever control device you like. If you want such a device, it is basically a variable resistor which has infinite resistance or open circuit at centre, and no resistance/short circuit at either end of rotation/travel Ė thatís all a 3 pos switch is but without all the variable bit in between! Any electronics shop should have small v/r rotary knobs. If you can get one with a centre detent to mark that position then thatís even better.

H
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Old Oct 27, 2003, 06:36 PM
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Harry,
Do you know what kind of switches to use for 2 and 3 position. i.e. single throw single pole, double throw double pole? I have a momentary switch, but it only has two solder posts. How do you wire the connector to the switch?

Thanks,
bobby
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Old Oct 28, 2003, 02:00 AM
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all single pole, for 2 pos single throw, for 3 pos double throw. For a momentary switch the wiring orientation doesn't matter.

H
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Old Oct 28, 2003, 07:58 AM
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Harry,
When you say the wiring orientation doesn't matter, have you connected all three wires to the momentary switch. If so, which wires are soldered to the same posts. My momentary switch only has 2 solder post.

Bobby
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Old Oct 28, 2003, 09:43 AM
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Only 2 wires connect to a momentary. From the plug the centre and one outer wire, not both outer.

H
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Old Oct 28, 2003, 11:06 AM
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I have added two rotary controls specifically to be used to be used as control attenuators. With the 4000 it is possible to modulate a signal from a control, but only attenuate so you have to program accordingly. So far I have used these to experiment with differential setting (later to be fixed) and elevator/flap mixing (again to be fixed later).

MPX do rotary pots the right size and with leads. Another mod I have seen is to mount sliders in either side in the upper case as conrols. I have yet to mount the sliders I have.

I like the push switch idea.

As to mixes, I use a servo mix on each servo and use these to do elevator/flap mixing although you can also do it with a multimix for the core mix and then use this at the servomixes. Fight mide switching can be used if you want to disable flaps in the main flight mode. I aso use a slider for camber control mixed to flaps and ailerons.

This is a very flexible transmitter. I use universal base type and then use servomixes on all servos and multimixes if need be with flight modes as needed.

I got my 4000 for the flexibility becasue my main interest is flying wings. My target is to be able to use split drag rudders and to be able to use the top and bottom surfaces mixed from aileron etc. Not sure how I am going to program them as yet, but I should be able to do it with the 4000, If anyone wants to take a stab at how the rudders (both out on one side) could be combinaed with aleron (one out), i'd be interested in hearing.
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Old Oct 28, 2003, 11:09 AM
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While we're on it, I have some windows backup software on the way - http://www.denveralde.com/mpm.
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Old Oct 28, 2003, 11:19 AM
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veronica,
That software sounds great. I like ability to have multiple versions for a model, so you can experiment. How much does it costs? I wish someone would put a windows interface on the programming side. That way you could point and click on a model on the screen. Once you got it like you want it, you could upload it to the transmitter.

Bobby
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Old Oct 28, 2003, 12:00 PM
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Hiya

I think versioning is really important, although understandably, it is quite a conceptual move for some users. I am dreading writing the manual for this bit. However, once understood, it should be workable. Using it togther with the annotations should make life easier for the compulsive experiementer. In due course, it will be able to inteligently 'diff' 2 versions so will know what changes were made - great for caputuring what you did to the program whilst out, when you get back.

On screen editing will come. I plan to have a tx mimic so you can use your mouse to move sticks, controls and switches (which needs a configuration thing to account for different control setups), an output window so you can see servo positions and an edit window with boxes and lines to represent mixes and signal flow, curve editing boxes etc. Should make programming a whole lot easier. It will have a debugging feature allowing you to see what happens to the signals. I am planning, one day, on being able to output serial to a serial->ppm box so you can driver the servos on the model. I don't plan on doing a model mimic because this gets way to complex. It ends up with wanting to see deflections which means being able to model linkages including slop etc not to mention trying to represent it all.

Not yet sure on pricing yet, but for backup only, circa 40GBP.

Other transmitters will follow.
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Old Oct 28, 2003, 02:00 PM
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Veronica, you have been teasing those of us on the Mpx email list with the MPM software for quite a while now! I really really do want it soon as I tend to have very complex programs, with numbers set after extensive flight testing and I don't relish having to re-program the 4000 if something bad ever happens. Are you able to give a definite release date for MPM yet?

Harry
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Old Oct 28, 2003, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by veronica
MPX do rotary pots the right size and with leads.

If anyone wants to take a stab at how the rudders (both out on one side) could be combinaed with aleron (one out), i'd be interested in hearing.
I have never seen rotary controls in their catalogue, are you sure you have not just seen the digi-adjuster which can be bought separately?

What exactly do you want the rudders and aileron to do?

Harry
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Old Oct 28, 2003, 02:11 PM
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I have fitted rotaries. Just ask a dealer. I might be able to give you codes if need be. They are the same rotaries used on other TX'es. They came with instructions for the cockpit.

As to the rudders and ailerons. Each rudder is 2 surfaces. For rudder, both are pushed out. For aileron, instead of moving a whole surface, the top or bottom only would be moved.

Does that help?
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