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Old Apr 13, 2012, 04:33 AM
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Louisville, KY
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So it is Going to Come Down to Four Things

Was it Zimmerman's or Martin's voice screaming on the telephone?

Does Zimmerman's injuries support his version of the events?

Does Martin's injuries support Zimmerman's version of the events?

Does the gun shot and gunpowder evidence place Zimmerman at point blank range or at a greater distance?

All of the hype and racism on both sides of this case are nonsense and meaningless.

The fact that the prosecutor charged Zimmerman with second degree murder instead of first degree murder is actually the only thing we really know about this case. If he had been charged with first degree murder the prosecutor has solid evidence that he just shot Martin in cold blood. Obviously they don't have that evidence.

Time will tell if the prosecutor can prove these four points.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 07:23 AM
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It's not so much the degree of murder that's the crucial point now - it's that whatever Zimmerman did was 'illegal' and therefore punishable!
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 07:29 AM
did a reversed Immelman..once.
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Novi, Michigan
Joined Nov 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stone_axe View Post
Was it Zimmerman's or Martin's voice screaming on the telephone?

Does Martin's injuries support Zimmerman's version of the events?

Does the gun shot and gunpowder evidence place Zimmerman at point blank range or at a greater distance?

All of the hype and racism on both sides of this case are nonsense and meaningless.
most of us realize Martins' injuries (leading to death) weren't released yet.If there was a struggle...before the gunshot,there should be powder burns.

...adding truth to Zimmermans story.


Hype and meaningless.?hardly...the outcome of this case is bigger than the Rodney King incident...how come.?

..It involves a youth...with the natural implication of innocence..
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 07:30 AM
It's 5 O'clock Somewhere
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Dayton, OH
Joined Feb 2006
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
It's not so much the degree of murder that's the crucial point now - it's that whatever Zimmerman did was 'illegal' and therefore punishable!
That is only the case if what Zimmerman did is found to be illegal.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:16 PM
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Tucson, AZ, USA
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I thought the difference between 1st degree and 2nd degree murder was 1st degree involved premeditation and planning for the deed in advance?


Maybe different in different States?
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:32 PM
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The huge difference is Florida is that a 1st degree case has to go to a grand jury first and 2nd degree can be sent forward by the prosecutor......that is probably the main reason it is 2nd degree......
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:32 PM
THE ЯUSSIANS ARE COMING!
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United States, CA, SF
Joined Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stone_axe View Post
Was it Zimmerman's or Martin's voice screaming on the telephone?

Does Zimmerman's injuries support his version of the events?

Does Martin's injuries support Zimmerman's version of the events?

Does the gun shot and gunpowder evidence place Zimmerman at point blank range or at a greater distance?

All of the hype and racism on both sides of this case are nonsense and meaningless.

The fact that the prosecutor charged Zimmerman with second degree murder instead of first degree murder is actually the only thing we really know about this case. If he had been charged with first degree murder the prosecutor has solid evidence that he just shot Martin in cold blood. Obviously they don't have that evidence.

Time will tell if the prosecutor can prove these four points.
So, you think Zimmerman's pursuit of Martin is of no consequence? Martin's "running"? Zimmerman's clearly establishing "ill-will" towards the "" he didn't want to "get away"?

We'll see. But I think you're incorrect.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:38 PM
Trons and Fumes
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Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
It's not so much the degree of murder that's the crucial point now - it's that whatever Zimmerman did was 'illegal' and therefore punishable!
You misstated it.

"It's IF whatever Zimmerman did was illegal, then it is punishable; if proven 'beyond a reasonable doubt.'"
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:42 PM
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Joined Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stone_axe View Post
Was it Zimmerman's or Martin's voice screaming on the telephone?

Does Zimmerman's injuries support his version of the events?

Does Martin's injuries support Zimmerman's version of the events?

Does the gun shot and gunpowder evidence place Zimmerman at point blank range or at a greater distance?

All of the hype and racism on both sides of this case are nonsense and meaningless.

The fact that the prosecutor charged Zimmerman with second degree murder instead of first degree murder is actually the only thing we really know about this case. If he had been charged with first degree murder the prosecutor has solid evidence that he just shot Martin in cold blood. Obviously they don't have that evidence.

Time will tell if the prosecutor can prove these four points.

I agree. The evidence that we can glean from news reports is spotty, some for, some against Zimmerman's account. If the 4 things you mention match up with Zimmerman's account, he will probably walk.

All of the events leading up to the shooting only show that Zimmerman could possibly have had it out for the kid from the get go. They don't prove he wanted to shoot him, or that he intended to shoot him. The show that in his mind he had Trayvon framed as someone who didn't belong in the neighborhood and who was up to no good. It is a fairly big leap to also say they show that he had intention of tracking him down and killing him.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:47 PM
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I'm willing to bet if Martin were white this would be back page news...
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:52 PM
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United States, FL, Tampa
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Originally Posted by Mark Gund View Post
I'm willing to bet if Martin were white this would be back page news...
If Zimmerman used his mothers maiden name this would be back page news.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 01:57 PM
St. Boondock
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Originally Posted by ENGINETORQUE View Post
It's not so much the degree of murder that's the crucial point now - it's that whatever Zimmerman did was 'illegal' and therefore punishable!
Huh?? Isn't that what's supposed to be decided in court??
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker View Post
Huh?? Isn't that what's supposed to be decided in court??
No. The media has already established that Zimmerman is guilty of racially hunting down, and killing in cold blood, an innocent 12 year black kid. Who needs the court? We have Jackson and Sharpton and the media to tell us who is guilty and of what.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 02:13 PM
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I am afraid that one day the black community is going to awaken to discover that they have mistaken the white mans tolerance for weakness. When that day occurs, it will be too late and they will have nobody to blame but the bigots and racists that led them down this path of hatred. On one hand, I find it hard to comprehend that this certain type of "black community" is so replete with ignorance that they would continue to subscribe to the racist rhetoric of their so-called leaders. On the other hand my husband and I find their actions illustrate their ignorance for the entire world to witness. These are the same people who have hate for my husband who is a black conservitive and to them he is somebody to fear. He is not following like a sheep, he has left the plantation, made a wonderful life for his family.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
You misstated it.

"It's IF whatever Zimmerman did was illegal, then it is punishable; if proven 'beyond a reasonable doubt.'"
Not in the court of ENGINTORQUE. Hey, that even rhymes!
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