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Old Nov 04, 2012, 01:55 AM
Corsair Captain
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Aaronredbaron,

Very cool! I bet that was an absolute blast! I once spent about 1.5 hrs doing unlimited aerobatics in an 850-pound, 350 HP Pitts Special - including a few outside loops. In the process, we pulled +8.5 & -3.5 Gs. That was the most fun I've ever had - legally, anyway! I'd love to experience aerobatic flight in a heli!

Joel
Try going to a crop dusting unit and see if you can ride along.
I used to work for San Tan Dusters out of Chandler Municipal Airport and would like up the airplanes and heli's for each pass over the field they were spraying.
Bob Copeland used to pick me up in his heli before cleaning up the ends of the field and would fly under telephone wires, pull up till you were looking at the sky, pitch the tail to the sky and pull out of the dive to go back under the tele wires again. MAN what a blast!!!!!! He was 72 back in 84 when I was working for him.
Garry K.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:05 PM
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Joined Aug 2007
151 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by crvnation View Post
Yes, the "elevator" (actually called a stabilator) can move and is automatically commanded to pre-set angles of deflection by the AFCS depending on flight conditions like control inputs, airspeed, etc. It does have a manual mode for emergency operation, but it does not work like a conventional elevator at all under any circumstances.
The stabilator is a big trim tab, not an elevator.

If the stabilator fails in the hover mode (fully tilted up) the helicopter cannot go faster than 60 knots forward speed without crashing (thus manual emergency mode). Same thing happens with the SH-60.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:07 PM
Biplanes and Helicopters
AtomicPunk's Avatar
USA, CA, Arroyo Grande
Joined Oct 2007
320 Posts
Tail Blowing out on 130x

Hi Guys,

I'm a little disappointed with the 130x, sure the thing is stable and flies like a much larger heli but I've crashed twice from having the tail blow out during loops and flips. I have maybe 40 flights on it, I've cleaned the servos with plastic-safe contact cleaner.

Could tail rotor vibration be causing the problem?

This thing blows out even on hard vertical ascents/descents.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Simon
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Last edited by AtomicPunk; Nov 04, 2012 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:10 PM
FlyMike
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United States, MI, Holly
Joined Nov 2011
101 Posts
I would first see if the C and D gears are slipping. The inner hole will round gradually.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:14 PM
Biplanes and Helicopters
AtomicPunk's Avatar
USA, CA, Arroyo Grande
Joined Oct 2007
320 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmilan View Post
I would first see if the C and D gears are slipping. The inner hole will round gradually.
Hi Mm,

I just checked it by grabbing the rotor head and turning the tail rotor. Ouila! The tail is slipping. Thanks for the head's up. Any tips on preventing the slip?

Thanks again,

Simon
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:25 PM
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United States, CA
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicPunk View Post
Hi Mm,

I just checked it by grabbing the rotor head and turning the tail rotor. Ouila! The tail is slipping. Thanks for the head's up. Any tips on preventing the slip?

Thanks again,

Simon
Some guys put CA on the TT then install the C gear. I thread dental floss through the hole in the C gear and press it on the TT then, trim the floss as close as possible. Holds the gear on tighter than nothing and the hole strips less often.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:31 PM
FlyMike
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United States, MI, Holly
Joined Nov 2011
101 Posts
Or maybe do both. I have had best success with, as you do, putting dental floss thru then wicking thin Ca into the joint. Dental floss needs to be unwaxed!
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:36 PM
Biplanes and Helicopters
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USA, CA, Arroyo Grande
Joined Oct 2007
320 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_skaggs View Post
Some guys put CA on the TT then install the C gear. I thread dental floss through the hole in the C gear and press it on the TT then, trim the floss as close as possible. Holds the gear on tighter than nothing and the hole strips less often.
Thanks J_S,

I pulled the TT and the gear that attaches directly to the TT is spinning loose on the TT. Looking through the exploded view and parts key, I see no mention of the C & D gears. Sorry for the dumb*ss question, which ones are the C & D gears?

Fortunately, I bought new tail gears the first time I crashed it (dumb thumbs) and didn't need them, so I should be OK fixing it.

Thanks again for the tip,

Simon

Woot! 300th post. (I'm easily entertained)
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 05:37 PM
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United States, CA
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmilan View Post
Or maybe do both. I have had best success with, as you do, putting dental floss thru then wicking thin Ca into the joint. Dental floss needs to be unwaxed!
Good idea. It never occurred to me to do both as dental floss along has worked well for me.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssobol View Post
If the stabilator fails in the hover mode (fully tilted up) the helicopter cannot go faster than 60 knots forward speed without crashing (thus manual emergency mode). Same thing happens with the SH-60.
Not full up, but uncommanded full down at speed resulting in a nose over smokin' hole in ground if you don't switch to manual mode and slew it up immediately. The Seahawk has a cyclic release button to manually kick it out of auto mode.

And, the stabilator is normally FULL DOWN in a hover, not trimmed up above level/0 degrees in anyway as that would result in an undesirable hover nose up attitude from the rotor downwash impinging on the stabilator.. It's only trimmed above level (+10 degrees? Can't remember) in fast forward flight to provide a more level cruising attitude that's not so nose down.

It's a bit cut off, but notice the extreme left side in this picture of this SH-60B doing SAR jumps. Stabilator is FULL DOWN.

http://helicopterphotos.net/gallery/...l.php?photo=58
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 07:01 PM
Biplanes and Helicopters
AtomicPunk's Avatar
USA, CA, Arroyo Grande
Joined Oct 2007
320 Posts
Hi J_S and Mm,

Replaced the gears, verified that they were not slipping, test flew.

Same problem, but no crash this time. Lack of tail rotor compensation for high torque situations.

Any other ideas? I very much appreciate the advice so far and I thought the stripped gear-to-shaft on the TT aft gear was the problem.

Thanks again,

Simon
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicPunk View Post
Hi J_S and Mm,

Replaced the gears, verified that they were not slipping, test flew.

Same problem, but no crash this time. Lack of tail rotor compensation for high torque situations.

Any other ideas? I very much appreciate the advice so far and I thought the stripped gear-to-shaft on the TT aft gear was the problem.

Thanks again,

Simon
Are you sure you're not bogging the head so much (i.e. too much pitch) that the tail slows enough to cause loss of tail rotor effectiveness?
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 07:16 PM
FlyMike
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United States, MI, Holly
Joined Nov 2011
101 Posts
Do you have the stock A gear? The teeth can wear quickly. Not too uncommon to produce lag in the tail.
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 07:39 PM
Biplanes and Helicopters
AtomicPunk's Avatar
USA, CA, Arroyo Grande
Joined Oct 2007
320 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by crvnation View Post
Are you sure you're not bogging the head so much (i.e. too much pitch) that the tail slows enough to cause loss of tail rotor effectiveness?
Hi crv,

The heli does bog some when I hammer it, the reason I'm confused is that it was fine for the first 15-20 flights until I crashed it due to a case of the prompt stupids.

I really appreciate the suggestions, these threads are great because of guys like you, willing to help.

Thanks,

Simon
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Old Nov 04, 2012, 07:41 PM
Biplanes and Helicopters
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USA, CA, Arroyo Grande
Joined Oct 2007
320 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmilan View Post
Do you have the stock A gear? The teeth can wear quickly. Not too uncommon to produce lag in the tail.
Hi Mm,

I ordered new front gears tonight (I assume that's the A gear) and will try it as soon as it shows up.

Thanks for your help,

Simon
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