Originally Posted by KTMDirtFace

I'm just going to fly it until it stops flying great and deal with it then

Which is basically what I'm saying. I think some of the "problems" people are having with this bird are a direct result of them trying to fix things that don't need fixing. Yeah, it shakes, but all helicopters vibrate, and if it's not causing flying problems, leave it alone before you break it yourself.

Vibration in a heli will eventually lead to a failure. I spend a awful lot of time eliminating any vibration. What is acceptable to some is not to others.

Mike

Originally Posted by mike2663

Vibration in a heli will eventually lead to a failure.

Mike

Ya' gotta face the facts of heli flying... just flying a heli will eventually lead to failure. That's why full size ones, those that carry people, are certified with maintenance schedules and log books driven by part and TBO times. It's just the nature of the beast.

Originally Posted by mike2663

Vibration in a heli will eventually lead to a failure.

Mike

Absolutely. And, it's sad to see the "who cares, I'll crash it before that happens" attitude. What they don't understand is vibration damage is cumulative. The damage is already done and will be there in the parts that DON'T get changed out in a crash. Everything has a fixed amount of "cycles" before component failure. Unnecessary mechanical vibes just get you there all that much sooner.

Originally Posted by erkq

Ya' gotta face the facts of heli flying... just flying a heli will eventually lead to failure. That's why full size ones, those that carry people, are certified with maintenance schedules and log books driven by part and TBO times. It's just the nature of the beast.

And, when there's problems, they actually fix them instead of ignoring them because there aren't any "bad behaviors"...for now...

Originally Posted by mike2663

Vibration in a heli will eventually lead to a failure.

Mike

But that's kind of like saying "all humans are eventually going to die"

You can't get rid of all the vibrations - you should probably get rid of the really bad ones, but a certain amount of vibration is part of "normal wear and tear" and if it's not causing flight problems, I don't worry about it. ALL HELICOPTERS VIBRATE, A LOT! The best we can do is make sure the mechanics are up to the challenges posed by those vibrations and try to eliminate resonance disasters. You can not prevent a helicopter from vibrating.

The point you should take away from this is that some things just don't matter, and you can spend a lot of money and give yourself a lot of headaches thinking those things matter. That is the whole damn reason why Blade says right in the damn manual "yes it shakes, don't worry about it" because they know that people are going to see that and think it's a huge problem, but the machine flies fine! If it's not affecting the flight, who cares?

Sure, some people have had issues with the flight performance, but I haven't, and I do have the vibration on spool-up. That was my point - you should not avoid buying this helicopter because of resonance vibrations. Get one, spool up past the shake, and see how it FLIES!

Because really, that IS the bottom line - how does the thing fly. I didn't buy it to listen to it, or watch it spin, I bought it to fly, and the flight performance is all I care about.

Makes sense and I'm definitely more worried and check over my 450 before flying.

These little ones like MCPX, 130x I just don't care( maybe I should the 130 costs as much as my 450 )...if it's flying awesome then great!..if its got a weird issue I fly it anyway as long as it will stay in the air. Fix it when I get home.

I do the same thing with my RC trucks..."What is that noise?"...whatever I drive the piss out it, sometimes grenading parts and I fix it later.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=4956

Originally Posted by jasmine2501

That is the whole damn reason why Blade says right in the damn manual "yes it shakes, don't worry about it" because they know that people are going to see that and think it's a huge problem, but the machine flies fine! If it's not affecting the flight, who cares?

Temper, temper...

And, please show us exactly where it says that in the manual because I just perused the on-line .pdf at Horizon and didn't see a single thing about that, nor do I recall anything even closely related when I read my physical manual long ago.

If you all are happy great more power to ya. Me I choose not to fly any heli with a obvious vibration. Eventually all helis will suffer a failure of some kind. I just don't want to encourage it in mine nor do I believe Horizon should settle for this either. They are better than that. I would expect a POS from the mall to be sub par but I hold Horizon to higher standards.

Mike

Still waiting for that "shakes are normal" type quote from the manual...

Originally Posted by mike2663

If you all are happy great more power to ya. Me I choose not to fly any heli with a obvious vibration. Eventually all helis will suffer a failure of some kind. I just don't want to encourage it in mine nor do I believe Horizon should settle for this either. They are better than that. I would expect a POS from the mall to be sub par but I hold Horizon to higher standards.

Mike

Definitely. There is absolutely no reason to not stomp out abnormal (yes these tail vibes ARE abnormal) vibrations, especially ones that are easily fixed. There is nothing "good" about ignoring that which looks bad, sounds bad, destroys components and robs power because something flies "okay" or "good enough" for the time being.

A Horizion employee posted on HF that it was normal for the tail to viberate during spool up and just go ahead a spool up fast and it would be fine.

The same or perhaps anothe HH employee posted that they were aware of the out of square tail shafts and were taking measures to correct this but it did not really present any problems.

I guess if it flys then all is A OK.

I shimed the tail shaft on my 130X and it flys great. My son purchased one and both of us worked on it off and on for two weeks. Tried a new 3 n 1, new servos, Bocan flanged bearings, shimed the tail, balanced tail blades etc. It would fly fine for one or two flights thren throw another fit. Tail would hold then kick out 90 to 180 and then sometime hold great and sometimes wag. Run tail gains up and it would sometimes get better and sometimes get worse.

He got tired of fighting it and traded it for a Trex 450.

Charles

Originally Posted by everydayflyer

The same or perhaps anothe HH employee posted that they were aware of the out of square tail shafts and were taking measures to correct this but it did not really present any problems.

Then why even bother wasting time/money to correct it? They know...

Originally Posted by mike2663

Granted but why do we so easily accept something with issues? I expect a bit more for $279.00 and so do my customers. Maybe my ( and their) expectations are higher considering this a "name brand" product

When you talk to customer support and they explain that the problem is " a trait of this helicopter" that's just wrong.
.
For one second put yourself in the place of the retailer. I'm supposed to tell a customer that? They won't go for it.

Not every heli guy likes to do a mod on new products to get it to preform as advertised.

Mike

There are other simple things that can cause the tail to vibrate. Like not having the set collar on the tail shaft tight up against the bearing. I have boca bearings and mine was starting to vibrate again. I found that the collar needed to be adjusted and the vibes went away again.

I think the 'resonance is ok' message, was from this post, which appeared over on HF.
Personally my 130x resonates, but if you amend you throttle curve it goes away, dont use the curve for normal in the instruction manual, make it steeper.

Here is the message as was posted.
################### ######

Hi Guys,

Here are some tips we have.

Roll on take-off.
Flybarless systems do not like it when the helicopter is light on the skids. As soon as the blades start spinning the pilot needs to start flying it. When taking off the 130 X, increase the throttle, once the blades are spinning rapidly increase the throttle to pop it off the ground. Letting the helicopter spool up slowly can cause vibration which will cause an unwanted roll. It is also recommended to take the helicopter off of a smooth surface such as concrete. The helicopter being so light can get stuck in the grass very easily.

Tail Resonance.
Upon spool up, the helicopters will experience a vibration in the tail assembly, but only during spool up. The tail is hitting a resonant frequency at a certain head speed; this is not a problem, it’s just something the 130 X does. The key is to quickly move through this head speed range. To avoid this issue, advance the throttle from low throttle to about 75% throttle immediately. The goal is to pop the helicopter off the ground as quickly as possible without letting it stay at the head speed that causes the resonant vibration. Once it moves past this head speed and is off the ground and in the air, the vibration will disappear.
Tail resonance can also occur when holding the helicopter and spooling it up. Helicopters are not designed to be held static when the rotors are turning, and Horizon does not support or recommend doing this!

Gear Stripping
One thing to check is to hold the head and try to spin the tail assembly, using light pressure. The tail shouldn't spin. If the tail spins easily check the gears and make sure none of them are slipping on the shaft. Again taking off of concrete or something smooth is better. Since the helicopter sits low, grass can grab the tail and potentially strip a gear. If the tail is not holding, stripped or slipping gears is generally the cause.

Motor Temperatures
The motor temp is warm but well within an acceptable range for a brushless motor. The motor temperature is approximately 160 degrees Fahrenheit depending on ambient temp. A high performance motor does generate heat. As with ALL electric motors, it is advised to allow the motor to cool between flights.
Servo Response

When the motor is off the gyros are off. The servos will work like you are expecting them to: hold left servo goes left, center the stick the servo centers.

When the motor is on the gyros are on. Therefore the servos act differently. When you hold full left rudder the error builds up. When you center the stick the gyro still thinks there is error and therefore continues to hold left rudder in. If you were to hold right rudder in for a little while, don't jab it, hold it in for a couple seconds it would then go right. Once the motor is turned off the servos will continue to operate this way for 4 seconds.



Thanks,
James
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Horizon Hobby Product Development