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View Poll Results: Is AMA Park Pilot Membership for $29.95 Worth It?
Heck Yeah! Never go to the park to fly without it. 19 79.17%
Spend the $29.95 on some beer. AMA membership is for suckers. 5 20.83%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Apr 20, 2012, 09:38 AM
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billbo1970's Avatar
Long Island, NY
Joined Jun 2007
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaft View Post
So, your willing to accept one report as a basis for a degradation of our hobby... I am not as willing...
Honestly, I'm starting to get annoyed at you crank, it seems like your only reason to comment is to be argumentative.

I did not say I accept or am good with or, even provide any info at all regarding how I feel about it. Don't put words in my mouth.

What I SAID was this affects puplic perception. I said it doesn't reflect well upon us. Regardless of whether it's true or not... that is irrelevant. Who has EVER claimed public perception is either reasonable or accurate?

Please do not put words in my mouth again, and read my posts carefully before commenting.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:06 AM
LSF303 / AMA Life Member
tkallev's Avatar
USA, IL, Wheeling
Joined Jan 2003
3,076 Posts
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Originally Posted by billbo1970 View Post
... it seems like your only reason to comment is to be argumentative.
That does seem to be many people's preferred hobby on these forums.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 03:32 PM
Waiting for the paint to dry.
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Pasadena Maryland
Joined Oct 2009
1,233 Posts
I think most forums started out as trying to be helpful but quickly changed to who hang around in them.
Up is down and that way will take you to the doom of.... "Put anything here" debaits~

Fly and have fun.
t
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:32 PM
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Joined Sep 2001
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Originally Posted by billbo1970 View Post
Honestly, I'm starting to get annoyed at you crank, it seems like your only reason to comment is to be argumentative.

I did not say I accept or am good with or, even provide any info at all regarding how I feel about it. Don't put words in my mouth.

What I SAID was this affects puplic perception. I said it doesn't reflect well upon us. Regardless of whether it's true or not... that is irrelevant. Who has EVER claimed public perception is either reasonable or accurate?

Please do not put words in my mouth again, and read my posts carefully before commenting.
So...how do we go about countering that perception??? I try to put forward the thought that all model aviators are typically very concerned about safe flying. And I dismiss any notion that unsafe practices are endemic of non-AMA modelers...

How about you?
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 06:46 AM
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Long Island, NY
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaft View Post
I try to put forward the thought that all model aviators are typically very concerned about safe flying. And I dismiss any notion that unsafe practices are endemic of non-AMA modelers...
You will find more shenanigans coming from non-AMA members.

Why?

Because the kids that buy an inexpensive airplane/heli/whatever with no knowledge or experience & just go to a local park to fly it are not going to be AMA members. People buying aircraft that are way beyond their skill level is very common, and they never have ama membership.

I talk myself out of a lot of sales unfortunately, but I don't want people wasting their money or endangering others. You would not believe the people that think they can learn on an EDF.. they obviously have done no research at all.

So, it is inherent that non-AMA members have a higher proportion of un-safe flyers in their ranks. Even if it were only due to inexperienced, uninformed, irresponsible newbies; but, we all know there are also non-newbies out there that just don't care & wouldn't last 2 seconds in anyones flying club.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 06:48 AM
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Long Island, NY
Joined Jun 2007
479 Posts
By the way, back to the LHS thing....

The opposite of what I've been saying is also true. There are shops out there where the proprietor is a cranky, un-friendly & un-helpful stick in the mud. Don't reward them with your dollar, take it to someone who will appreciate your business! These are the kinds of guys we DONT want representing our hobby/industry.

Regards,
Bill
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 08:23 AM
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Joined Sep 2001
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Originally Posted by billbo1970 View Post
You will find more shenanigans coming from non-AMA members.

Why?

Because the kids that buy an inexpensive airplane/heli/whatever with no knowledge or experience & just go to a local park to fly it are not going to be AMA members. People buying aircraft that are way beyond their skill level is very common, and they never have ama membership.

I talk myself out of a lot of sales unfortunately, but I don't want people wasting their money or endangering others. You would not believe the people that think they can learn on an EDF.. they obviously have done no research at all.

So, it is inherent that non-AMA members have a higher proportion of un-safe flyers in their ranks. Even if it were only due to inexperienced, uninformed, irresponsible newbies; but, we all know there are also non-newbies out there that just don't care & wouldn't last 2 seconds in anyones flying club.
Youíve got to be kidding... Nothing about being an AMA member prevents you from flying models beyond your skill level... I see it all the time...AMA members going from a trainer to honking P-51 and then attempting (operative word) to fly it at their crowded AMA flying site on a Saturday morning...I canít count the number of times models have come in the pits during events or just the typical flying day...

At least Non-AMA type try to find a vacant pasture or school yard more often than not instead of at the target rich club flying field...and generally arenít concerned about showing off their new toy...thatís beyond their capability to fly...their concern is more about having a successful safe flight... So there!
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 08:59 AM
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Long Island, NY
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaft View Post
Youíve got to be kidding... Nothing about being an AMA member prevents you from flying models beyond your skill level... I see it all the time...AMA members going from a trainer to honking P-51 and then attempting (operative word) to fly it at their crowded AMA flying site on a Saturday morning...I canít count the number of times models have come in the pits during events or just the typical flying day
I don't know about your neck of the woods, but around here THOSE guys get kicked out of their clubs.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 10:56 AM
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Red Scholefield's Avatar
USA, FL, Newberry
Joined Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by billbo1970 View Post
I don't know about your neck of the woods, but around here THOSE guys get kicked out of their clubs.
One way to fix that. Start your own club with zero dues, and then muscle in on an exiting club's flying site.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 07:46 AM
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USA, CA, Santee
Joined Jul 2002
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaft View Post
Youíve got to be kidding... Nothing about being an AMA member prevents you from flying models beyond your skill level... I see it all the time...AMA members going from a trainer to honking P-51 and then attempting (operative word) to fly it at their crowded AMA flying site on a Saturday morning...I canít count the number of times models have come in the pits during events or just the typical flying day...

<snip>
Humm, in the 26 years I've been a member at Miramar, I saw that happen exactly twice. Never happened in the 8 years I was a member at Chollas Park, Never happened in the 11 years I was a member at the Stadium Sport Flyers, Never happened at the Hemet club for the 4 years I was a member there, Did see parts of an airplane come into the pits once at the Silent Electric Flyers club at an event when the most experienced flyer at the field had a prop shaft shear on a big electric, but don't think experience had anything to do with that.

Appearently I can count the number of times, and in my experience AMA members are well cognizant of their experience level and "play" safely.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 09:45 AM
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Humm, in the 26 years I've been a member at Miramar, I saw that happen exactly twice. Never happened in the 8 years I was a member at Chollas Park, Never happened in the 11 years I was a member at the Stadium Sport Flyers, Never happened at the Hemet club for the 4 years I was a member there, Did see parts of an airplane come into the pits once at the Silent Electric Flyers club at an event when the most experienced flyer at the field had a prop shaft shear on a big electric, but don't think experience had anything to do with that.

Appearently I can count the number of times, and in my experience AMA members are well cognizant of their experience level and "play" safely.

Well then, maybe you can explain why paying $58 to AMA automatically makes you a totally different modeler in regards to safety... Others here keep implying that but they fall short when asked how that is... I see no difference between non-AMAers and AMAers but you can probably bring me up to speed as you are much smarter than anyone else here.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by billbo1970 View Post
I don't know about your neck of the woods, but around here THOSE guys get kicked out of their clubs.
Yep, you can just suck-up to the AMA and club politics instead of trying to help them become successful modelers... Finding ways to exclude people is much easier...
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 04:40 PM
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St. Louis, MO
Joined Oct 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billbo1970 View Post
You will find more shenanigans coming from non-AMA members.

Why?

Because the kids that buy an inexpensive airplane/heli/whatever with no knowledge or experience & just go to a local park to fly it are not going to be AMA members. People buying aircraft that are way beyond their skill level is very common, and they never have ama membership.

I talk myself out of a lot of sales unfortunately, but I don't want people wasting their money or endangering others. You would not believe the people that think they can learn on an EDF.. they obviously have done no research at all.

So, it is inherent that non-AMA members have a higher proportion of un-safe flyers in their ranks. Even if it were only due to inexperienced, uninformed, irresponsible newbies; but, we all know there are also non-newbies out there that just don't care & wouldn't last 2 seconds in anyones flying club.
Well have been staying out of this thread until this post.

The most irresponsible and dangerous people I have flown with and seen fly are AMA members.

1) At a AMA club site I called plane down went to recover my plan and got buzzed at 10 ft off the deck directly over my head by a AMA member that got a kick out of doing that sort of thing.

2) Got to watch a AMA member startup and fly a size 90 heli at the local soccer park on a busy Sunday with people 50ft on either side of that death machine.

3) Or the "ace" 3D pilot with a big gasser plane at a AMA field that had NO REGARD for who else was flying, he expected you to stay out of the way of his plane. Even after he totally took out several planes.

So you can take your condescending pro-AMA all clubs are safe attitude and keep it to yourself since you are wrong.

There is another thing I like about you pro-AMA all club types your open all welcoming nature as long as trouble stays away from you. You're like people that send their kids to private schools that are all "safe" and high scores because they throw out anyone they don't like. Then those same people complain about other people that are still (in this case) flying and enjoying this hobby.

I do wonder how many of you that that harp over and over and over again about parkflyers have ever flown with any. I get the feeling all this "knowledge" you have about people that are not in the AMA or clubs is all conversation from the choir as you sit around your club site. Suggest you actually get out of your comfort zone and actually meet the types of people you complain about.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:40 PM
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Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Pennsylvania, United States
Joined Nov 2000
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In all my years flying model airplanes I never heard anyone claim that ALL AMA members are perfect. There are also a few rotten apples in the AMA barrel as there are in most other groups. AMA membership comes from an imperfect group known as the human race. The same group that park flyers come from.
The difference being that AMA members have a code of conduct for lack of a better term and most members try to abide by it.
This is not to say that park flyers are careless or not safety conscious. I do believe most are but because some are perhaps not as aware of safety issues as are AMA members or more experienced park flyers they might do things that shed a bad light on them.
Then there are those who do things that are completely outrageous and who believe rules do not apply to them (you tube has some fine examples and there have been examples posted on these forums as well). AMA members or not these guys need to be reined in.
This is a great hobby. There is enough room in it for both AMA members and non members.

BM
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 06:06 AM
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Long Island, NY
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Originally Posted by KenP View Post
So you can take your condescending pro-AMA all clubs are safe attitude and keep it to yourself since you are wrong.

There is another thing I like about you pro-AMA all club types your open all welcoming nature as long as trouble stays away from you. You're like people that send their kids to private schools that are all "safe" and high scores because they throw out anyone they don't like. Then those same people complain about other people that are still (in this case) flying and enjoying this hobby.

I do wonder how many of you that that harp over and over and over again about parkflyers have ever flown with any. I get the feeling all this "knowledge" you have about people that are not in the AMA or clubs is all conversation from the choir as you sit around your club site. Suggest you actually get out of your comfort zone and actually meet the types of people you complain about.
my GOD man.. why all the hostility? Have I been hostile at all, towards anyone? Did I say anywhere that ALL non AMA members are irresponsible? I said a lot of KIDS are irresponsible. Did I say AMA members don't cause trouble? I most certainly did not, I said it is less likely.

Why is it not possible that my observations can't just be different from yours? 2nd thread this weekend I'm unsubscribing from.
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