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Old Dec 14, 2012, 09:49 AM
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Ancaster, Ontario, Canada
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John: Am very aware of the "trials and tribulations" of this build. Good luck with your test flights. Hopefully this will be as good a flyer as most of your other planes. . . Cheers
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 01:48 PM
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Canada, ON, Hamilton
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Lancer may go brushless

Well, I did read Craig’s thread (Vic Smeed "Mams'elle", post #16) and mention was made of "multi-tasking". So, time for a little more with the Lancer. I had planed a test flight with electric before painting it, but that didn’t happen. The firewall is starting to look a bit like a pin cushion with all the different mounting holes drilled into it. Now that I’m going for an electric I’ve made up a rough box, mounted the brushless, taken it off and made more holes to run the wiring and cooling air. Maybe I’ll have to go see Chad when he starts painting??
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:48 PM
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Canada, ON, Hamilton
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glow to electric

What Size Motor Do I Need for the Lancer? I really don’t know.
I was going to use an OS .26 FS.
Chad used a .30 FS (I think) and said he had lots of power.

I haven’t painted the model yet (just base coat) and if I run a “wet” engine to test fly, the future paint won’t stick.

So, I was trying to make the past Dec/2012 deadline and decided electric was the way to get air born “right away”. Didn’t happen.

But, I did get an electric BL from RC Timer, a 3548/6 790 kv.
I tested this with an 11 x 8.5 prop, and a 4000 ma 4S LiPo.
The BL pulled 28 amps, and used 400 watts (so the meter said). The Lancer felt that it would have pulled away quickly.

I have a 70 amp ESC, the BL specs say it can handle 700 watts.
So, I think I will have reserve power if needed using a larger prop, or I could perhaps lighten the battery and go to a 3 S if the power is not required.

Using the formula 2000 watts per cubic inch, 400/2000= .2 cubic inch glow equivalent power that this BL is generating. Maybe? It sure pulled a lot more than my .21 Profi glow, and maybe more than my OS .25 FSR with a 9x6.

Anyway, I think I’ve got enough “pull” for a test flight. Now I’ll just wait for the weather. Do a little day dreaming, remember to do a range check with full power and make sure the BL and ESC aren’t too dirty with RF.
Now if I had some good model diesel fuel…..
John
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 03:43 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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I can't see anywhere what the weight of your model is John, but this type of model should fly adequately on 80 watts per pound input, be pretty lively on 100 watts per pound and a rocket ship on 120/130! My 2.1/2 pound Spartan has a 300 watt motor propped for 250 watts from a 3S lipo, takes off in 3 metres at full throttle, will hold a 70/80 degree climb until it disappears and cruises level on 1/3rd throttle. So unless your Lancer is somewhat heavier than I would expect I should think 400 watts would be fine for a start, and you may well find that it is all you need, but you always have the option of a bigger prop if not as your motor/ESC have plenty of capacity to spare.
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 08:00 AM
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Thanks SD. I just weighed every thing up, as it now stands. Total AUW is 2.2 kg or 5.8 lbs. The wing span is about 75 inches, wing area about 680 sq in.

Originally I was going to go “wet” with maybe an OS FS .26. My OS only turns a 10x6 about 8500 rpm, so I don’t think it would have the power.

Years ago (1960’s) I had a “Good Knight” , a similar sized model, flown with an 8 ch Graupner super regen tone module radio. It (battery, all modules, servos) must have weighed close to one lb (1/2 kg). The Good Knight first flew, hand launched, with a Frog .21 (3.5cc) diesel. The Frog did pull it up and had enough power. Later, I used a Johnson .36 glow which had more power.

So, if the present BL at 400 watts doesn’t pull the Lancer off the ground, I’ll re prop for more wattage. However, the present “feel”, or “pull” with the 11 x 8.5 prop seems good. It wants to go. I’m getting anxious to try it out.

I’ll have to remember to do a ground range check. Chad had a problem with a couple of ESCs that emitted a lot of dirty RF and really cut the ground range down to a point where he didn’t fly the model until he corrected the problem by using a different ESC and going to a 2.4 G radio.

It’s getting closer to spring and flying. And the Peace Maker is still in the works.
John
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 11:36 AM
Chad H Fly`n Farmer
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Ancaster, Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV8R View Post
Thanks SD. I just weighed every thing up, as it now stands. Total AUW is 2.2 kg or 5.8 lbs. John
WHAT!?!! Holy cow man. What a boat anchor. You and your fiberglass and high tech goop.

My Lancer 72 weighs all up 3 pounds ,14 ounces dude, and that`s with a heavy large Harry Higley brass prop nut on board for some nose ballast.

Can`t beat the dope an` silk ol` school finish man.

Here`s my quick build thread completed : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=875707
Weight is on post # 12.

Here`s the quick build thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=820232
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 01:18 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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I think the maths have gone astray somewhere John, I make 2.2 kgs to be 4.8 pounds, not 5.8??
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 10:45 PM
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Oh my, must blame this on a senior’s moment! Thanks SD, you’re correct.
AUW is 4.8 lb (2.2 kg). Rather careless of me.
Chad, I’m still a little heavy (Lancer, not me), but it is a “dope” finish. I’ll weigh the battery, it is heavy.
John
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Old Mar 02, 2013, 08:06 PM
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Canada, ON, Caledonia
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I think you had better go with the electric setup John. The 26 is only good for about 3lbs.

Bill
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Old Mar 03, 2013, 05:25 PM
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Bill, I'll take your advice. Let's see how it flies , then make any required changes.
John
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 01:19 PM
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Canada, ON, Hamilton
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Bill, this is coming along at a snails pace.
Electric now installed.
Have a 4S 5000 LiPo and am pulling about 300 watts with a 12x8.
The BL is good for 500, so I can experiment.
Static pull feels strong.
Still haven't got past the white paing.
The cowl will have to be cleaned up for the BL, as the FS glow won't be sticking its head out.
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 01:52 PM
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Southampton, UK
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John,

I would think the 4s 5000 lipo is well over that needed for the lancer if it will fly on 300 W.

I am flying my 5 lbs 80" span debutante on 240 W take off and 120/150 W cruise using a 3s 3000 lipo

I like the cabin detail - looking forward to seeing the finished model and the flight video

john
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 09:16 PM
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Blenheim, NZ
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What has happened to this one?

Is the Lancer flying yet John????

Allan
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 07:04 PM
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Thanks for the info John. You're probably correct, 300 w maybe closer to what I need. I've propped the BL so that it is drawing about 350 W, so it won't be working too hard.
Present weights for the Lancer are: wing 500g (75 inch span)
fuse as shown, less battery , is 1300 g.
the 4S lip 5000 weighs 518g.
AUW 2300g

Originally power was going to be wet, but I didn't get the paint and trim on, so I didn't want to get an oil film on the model. I tried to make the Dec 2012 dead line, so I decided BL, but never got finished. I was going to test fly it "as is". So maybe I'll have to do just that.

Sorry Allan, but I really stalled on this one. It hasn't flown. All I need now is a receiver and battery power to the servos. The ESC (100 amp) has no BEC and I don't want to add one, as it might pass emf to my receiver.
I'll try for a flight the first really good day I get; want a blue sky and light wind.
If it flies well, then it'll get more paint and trim, but it may not be dope.
John
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