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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jhsa View Post
Would you fly your expensive model knowing that there is a possibility of someone at your field using a module that could have the same GUID as yours, and might turn it on when you're in the air??
I know I wouldn't
Please re-read and try to understand...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tignmeg View Post
Some simple stats....
I believe the GUID is a 32 bit code. That being the case there is over 4 billion codes. Simply put that would mean that you would need to put 100,000 fliers in the field at one time using the same technology and you would have to do that 40,000 times to have a reasonable chance of having a clash.
Apparently I could be wrong and the GUID could be 128bit with some bits fixed. So the stats above are pessimistic.

I have a Spektrum DX8 and I am not in the slightest bit worried
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CiprianGugu View Post
Well, if HK copied and hardcoded one GUID/hopping pattern then that module will bind and work perfectly with a genuine Spektrum DSMX receiver.

The point that there are no Orange DSMX receivers tells me that they were not able to figure out the hopping pattern based on a transmitter's GUID.
Yep that sounds logical. I'd put money on them figuring it out though. They're smart little hackers.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:16 PM
Mark Harrison
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Originally Posted by dvogonen View Post
I do not want to fight and I am most certainly not anti anything. I am just curious.
How can there be a possible ID conflict between original Spektrum transmitters? I thought they were initialized with unique ID's when they were produced.
Maybe he means, that in an ID conflict between Spektrum and the third party, the Spektrum Tx/Rx is equally affected?
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:36 PM
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We can test out the gear and argue all night, but we can't know the magnitude of this problem (if indeed it is one) until HK at least give an outline of how they implemented DSM2 and DSMX and why the Change ID button is there. Unfortunately they don't seem particularly interested in doing that.

That leaves us with very few facts to go on, but it's difficult not to add them together and conclude there is reason to exhibit a healthy degree of scepticism:
  • No FCC mark;
  • CE mark, but no certificate of conformity available at this point (CE marks are a requirement to fly legally in the UK and remain insured according to our national body the BMFA);
  • Only available from Int'l warehouse (they would need FCC and CE marks to sell in the US and EU respectively, and I believe there is a similar Aussie certification too);
  • No information on the reverse engineered DSM2/DSMX protocols;
  • Change ID button with statement in the online instructions it is there in case the module is seen to control another RX without binding to it;
  • Numerous tickets to customer support asking for clarifications closed without response;
  • No engagement from HK product support in these forums or via their FB page, despite the fact they have numerous employees regularly posting on other topics.
At the end of the day most of the radio manufacturers (Futaba, Spektrum, FrSky and Hitec amongst them) have had issues/question marks over their 2.4 RF implementations at some point. All have gone on to deliver solid products in the end. How? By engaging with customers to explain how the systems work, listening and acting on feedback, and holding their hands up and doing the right thing when they've made a mistake. I sincerely hope HK take the same responsible approach now they are manufacturing radio systems in addition to reselling other people's (OrangeRX and HK are both brands owned by the same parent company Hextronik, as per the footnote on their website).
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:52 PM
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I think that sums it up pretty well Mat

Although I'm an enthusiastic HK customer I doubt we will be getting the feedback on their implementation of 2.4g or DSMX because they run their ops at minimal cost which means that they don't have the people/time or inclination to be pandering to our service wants.
It will eventually come out but more likely from the external hacker community IMO.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 06:57 PM
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Is there really a GUID problem? Chances are very minute of a clash. Has anyone reported an issue?

Also it is a DSM issue overall, not an orange tx problem. If Spektrum doesn't let others know of the GUID range that they use then if there is a GUID clash it will affect the Spektrum as well as the Orange. At least the Orange has a button to get a new GUID.

I haven't been following the GUID issue closely but can you point to a single incident where this was a problem? Otherwise why concern yourself about Orange DSM and not Spektrum as well? If avoiding Orange you should avoid Spektrum for the same reason.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 09:27 PM
Flying a Chipmunk in Portugal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyB View Post

[*]Change ID button with statement in the online instructions it is there in case the module is seen to control another RX without binding to it;
Now, that is worrying

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettAltea View Post
Also it is a DSM issue overall, not an orange tx problem. If Spektrum doesn't let others know of the GUID range that they use then if there is a GUID clash it will affect the Spektrum as well as the Orange.
So it's really spektrum's fault for not providing their product protocol so it could be cloned easily?? shame on them

Quote:
At least the Orange has a button to get a new GUID.
WOW, what happens if the guy doesn't press the button because he doesn't know that you are flying with the same GUID? EXACTLY..

Quote:
I haven't been following the GUID issue closely but can you point to a single incident where this was a problem? Otherwise why concern yourself about Orange DSM and not Spektrum as well? If avoiding Orange you should avoid Spektrum for the same reason.
Hmmm, maybe this is all spektrum's fault for cloning orange
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 09:49 PM
Flying a Chipmunk in Portugal
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This file can be found in the HK OrangeRX "files" section. the same place where you find the manual.. Now, I wonder what it means..

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=24656
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 10:03 PM
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Im impressed with HK support over the Orange channel 2 issue and it reinforces my decision to get a 9XR asap. To proactively send out replacements shows a high level of customer service in this instance.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhsa View Post
This file can be found in the HK OrangeRX "files" section. the same place where you find the manual.. Now, I wonder what it means..

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=24656
At the risk of over posting on this subject....
That is interesting I'd love to know who posted it and where it came from
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jhsa View Post
So it's really spektrum's fault for not providing their product protocol so it could be cloned easily?? shame on them
??? Who said anything about Spektrum providing the protocol? All we are talking about is the unique ID number, totally different than protocol. Probably one in a trillion of clashing but the only way would be if a Spektrum radio and an Orange had the exact same number (unlikely). Orange would probably all be unique from other Orange and Spektrum unique from other Spektrum. So if this an issue for Orange it is EXACTLY the same issue for Spektrum. This could easily be avoided by Spektrum saying that they use an ID within this or that range of numbers.

But the chances of a conflict are too low to worry about anyway.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 11:42 PM
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You're touching on having standards for radio control there Brett. Shame on you

Why on earth would we want to always know channel 1 is Motor, 2 is R Aileron etc? It is much more fun trying to remember what brand receiver we are using and what order they use.

Why would we want the same colour codes for servo wires? I love spending ages trying to find out why my control is not working only to realise I have the servo plugged into the receiver the right way

Why would we want voltages to be the same from system to system?

Why would we want servo plugs to be the same?

etc etc etc

Sorry I guess I'm just being selfish
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:33 AM
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I'd love it if all servos went the same directions. Hated the time when I swapped my aileron servos only to find they were reversed when I threw it up in the air.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 12:53 AM
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Hopefully we only have to wait one more week, pleeeeeease!
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 01:35 AM
Taranis Tyro...
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United Kingdom, England, Hitchin
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhsa View Post
This file can be found in the HK OrangeRX "files" section. the same place where you find the manual.. Now, I wonder what it means..

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=24656
Great catch! Very interesting - that is a brand new file, it wasn't there at the start of the week. It seems to suggest there are either 6 or 15 IDs in each unit, and the fact they they only differ in the 3rd bit each time would suggest they weren't gathered from genuine Spektrum TXs (if they had been it would be statistically unlikely that this was the only way they varied). With my limited technical knowledge that's about all i can deduce though - over to the techies!
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