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Old Oct 30, 2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dvogonen View Post
It is not possible to patent software interfaces. This has been tried in courts several times. It is very possible to patent software functionality implementation, which makes it paramount to be able to prove that you build from a clean slate rather that by reverse engineering existing code.
clearly they did and where granted not one but 2 patents for DSM and DSMX

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/7,391,320

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...+Hobby,+Inc%22

for any thing to work with Spekturm hardware it has do things listed in the patents doesnt matter how they are do
like take the GUID
if there is no GUID the system wont bind that alone infringes
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 12:12 PM
2 seconds from crashing
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Originally Posted by RENATOA View Post
Even without this discussion about patents, not understand what's so cool having a DSM* clone ?!
Cheap receivers ? Come-on, only the 6ch are cheap, what serious plane can you fly with 6 channels ?!
No telemetry, the weakest link reliability of all brand radios, should I continue ?!
This is really what you want, only to save $10 a receiver ?!
It is dsm2/dsmx so it is far from the weakest link...

Also my bet is HK will have telemetry options down the line.

Though who buys compatibles for spendy aircrafts anyhow? Most will be used with BNF aircrafts and the savings per rx is more than $10 if some choose to fly with them.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
clearly they did and where granted not one but 2 patents for DSM and DSMX

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/7,391,320

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...+Hobby,+Inc%22

for any thing to work with Spekturm hardware it has do things listed in the patents doesnt matter how they are do
like take the GUID
if there is no GUID the system wont bind that alone infringes
It will be interesting to see if they do something, though my bet is this will seriously increase their BNF sales.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
man if Apple can a ban on Samsung phones for look and feel i think Horizon has a great case on HK now could only hope they get this thing pulled from the market
that is a total clone of a DX6i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
DSM, DSM2, and DSMX have patents any thing that interfaces with them with out paying what ever fees Horizon asks is infringing on the patents
sure the boards could be new designs but the way it works has to be the same or it doest work
i dont see Horizon letting it go this time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/7,391,320

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...+Hobby,+Inc%22

have fun but that covers all the stuff that make it work regardless of HOW it works
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
to be fair 3D planks only need 6 channels up 30cc size
but yea i wouldnt put a 10 buck knock off RX in plane i have 1000+ in >.>

the other thing is i hate patent trolls and people like RIAA/MPAA and Apples patent trolling
but in this case Horizon came up with some thing new that should be protected they did the all the R and D work and took all the risk and here comes HK to take the reward with no risk

same goes for Futaba btw

if there was ever a case for patent infringement this is it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
clearly they did and where granted not one but 2 patents for DSM and DSMX

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/7,391,320

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...+Hobby,+Inc%22

for any thing to work with Spekturm hardware it has do things listed in the patents doesnt matter how they are do
like take the GUID
if there is no GUID the system wont bind that alone infringes
Good 4 u!!
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Daryoon View Post
I don't think everyone is in the hobby for the "serious" stuff. Having the ability to fly the bnf micro helis and plane that Horizon Hobby produce is a worthwhile reason for the excitement of a DSM2, plug and play TX module.

Beyond that, I can agree with you. For the larger aircrafts that can take it's own receiver, there are other protocols that works really well.

For those who entered the market with DSM2 micro and invested in a Specktrum radio, and now are stepping up to larger birds....and if are like any of us addicts, own many different frames..I don't fault them for trying to save a few bucks.

In the end, it's nice to have the flexibility of choice.
I agree and Horizon may benefit with more people buying just the planes and helis. Lose a little in Tx sales but gain in aircraft sales. Win.win.

The market place RULES.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
clearly they did and where granted not one but 2 patents for DSM and DSMX

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/7,391,320

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...+Hobby,+Inc%22

for any thing to work with Spekturm hardware it has do things listed in the patents doesnt matter how they are do
like take the GUID
if there is no GUID the system wont bind that alone infringes
If you read through the patents there's no mention of GUIDs. The patents are basically for spread spectrum technology and if you read the 14 claims they appear to be very generic that could apply to almost any of the 2.4ghz controllers on the market, most of which had then well prior to Spektrum.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BrettAltea View Post
If you read through the patents there's no mention of GUIDs. The patents are basically for spread spectrum technology and if you read the 14 claims they appear to be very generic that could apply to almost any of the 2.4ghz controllers on the market, most of which had then well prior to Spektrum.
then you didnt look very hard

Quote:
Process 500 may begin by scanning the 79 available channels for a free channel 510. When a free channel has been detected, a transmitter module of the present invention "listens" for a globally unique identifier of a receiver 520. It is contemplated that receiver modules of the present invention may be pre-programmed with a globally unique identifier (GUID). The transmitter module may lock on to the globally unique identifier 530. For example, a user-initiated set-up process may bind a transmitter module to a receiver module. Once a transmitter module has been bound with a receiver module, radio controlled system digitally encodes data and assigns data a unique frequency code. Data is then scattered across the frequency band in a pseudo-random pattern. A receiving device may decipher only the data corresponding to a particular code to reconstruct the signal. Received data may include failsafe data, which may be transmitted from the transmitter module to the receiver module during binding. It is further contemplated that RF power may be reduced during a binding process, lowering the range to ensure that a transmitter module binds to a correct receiver module.

If the channel spectrum is full, an 80.sup.th system may not connect or cause any interference. The 80.sup.th channel may go into "hold scan" until a channel is free. A selector may repeat a series of channel frequencies upon completion, and not use any channel more than once in each repetition of the series of channel frequencies.

Once a transmitter module of the present invention is bound to a specific receiver module of the present invention, the transmitter module may be locked to the receiver module. When the receiver module is locked to the transmitter module, the receiver module may only recognize signals from that particular transmitter module. It is further contemplated that there may be over 4 billion possible GUID codes, substantially eliminating the possibility that a receiver module may mistake another signal source for its transmitter module. By employment of a GUID for receiver modules in accordance with the present invention, a requirement of conventional radio control systems of monitoring frequency usage may be eliminated.

In an embodiment of the invention, selection of an initial channel, step 510 of FIG. 5, may also be based upon a combination of signal strength and correlation. Upon a determination of available channels, an initial channel may be randomly calculated based on a time of a first event from a legacy transmitter. Code allocation and search pattern may also be calculated from a pseudo-random number derived from a GUID. A comb algorithm may be utilized to eliminate or reduce a media access uncertainty window.

An advantageous aspect of the radio controlled system in accordance with an embodiment of the present invention may be method of data transmission. First, the radio controlled system may encode servo data individually within a sub-packet of a packet. Servo channel data may refer to the instructions for motors, such as servomotors which may include mechanical motors which operate to move a radio controlled device in a particular direction or at a particular speed. A radio controlled device such as a radio controlled car may include a plurality of servos. Instructions for each servo may be encoded within a sub-packet. For example a radio controlled device may include two servos, one coupled to the carburetor, and another to the steering mechanism. The servo connected to the carburetor may control the speed of the car and may also control braking. The second servo connected to the steering mechanism may control a direction of the front wheels of the radio controlled car. Encoding individual servo channel data may provide for lowest latency in transmission. This may be advantageous as it may allow more precise control over the radio controlled device as instructions may be received and processed in a more rapid fashion than conventional radio controlled systems. A globally unique identifier (different than GUID for receiver) may be included with a packet whereby a receiver in accordance with the present invention may synchronize and validate each sub-packet.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 02:33 PM
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United States, FL, Miami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
clearly they did and where granted not one but 2 patents for DSM and DSMX

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/7,391,320

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...+Hobby,+Inc%22

for any thing to work with Spekturm hardware it has do things listed in the patents doesnt matter how they are do
like take the GUID
if there is no GUID the system wont bind that alone infringes
Granting a patent and defending it are two totally different things,unless you are Apple.


Quote:
When a free channel has been detected, a transmitter module of the present invention "listens" for a globally unique identifier of a receiver 520. It is contemplated that receiver modules of the present invention may be pre-programmed with a globally unique identifier (GUID).
I also thought it was the other way around, even the Spektrum website says the RX listens for the TX's GUID(which is how you can have several receivers on one model memory), does the patent say it happens the other way around ?

http://www.spektrumrc.com/DSM/Technology/glossary.aspx
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pach View Post
Granting a patent and defending it are two totally different things
i could defend this thing in my sleep
this isnt some BS look and fell because its shaped like a black rectangle
if the HK radio binds to a real Spektrum RX its pretty clear its infringing on Horizons patent for the at LEST the binding process if not the whole workings of the DSM/2/X protocol

whats patented is how the protocol works and thats pretty easy to defend
and since the RX need to reject any thing thats not using the same protocol its pretty damning

and that doesnt even get in the trademark and copyright of using the DSM/2/X names on there stuff

the GUID is agreed upon when you bind both have a GUID that part maybe part of the model match stuff
which is pretty defend-able in it self

if this stuff wasnt defend-able every one would be using the same stuff at lest the lawyers at Horizon, Futaba, JR, and Hitec think so
the issue is what can you do in China and you can patent stuff there the question is has Horizon
i could see a US court putting an import ban on HK clones pretty easily
it comes down is worth the money to kick HK around if where me id do it just to make a point
and when it was just cheap RX i can see why they let it go but with a whole cloned radio system i have feeling they may let the lawyers off the leashes for this one
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Last edited by Elios000; Oct 30, 2012 at 02:53 PM.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 02:46 PM
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Huh what are you talking about Elios000, Can you even patent a Protocol? that would be like patenting English or German.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 02:58 PM
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The difference is that English and German are universal languages. If DSM, DSM2, DSMX, FHSS, and all of the others were universal languages, Horizon, Futaba, Hitec, and all the others wouldn't be on their individual protocols. A Spektrum would be able to bind to a Futaba and vice versa. Get where I'm going?
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 03:16 PM
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They are all on their own protocols since they want to, not since they need to. If Spectrum wanted to make FAAST compatible transmitters / receivers, they could do so more or less in a heartbeat. And the reverse goes for Futaba.
It will be interesting to see if Spectrum tries to go after Orange for patent infringement. The patented binding process sounds pretty generic to me, even if they used it first for the specific application area.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 03:41 PM
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What's up with the day-glo orange color?
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 03:53 PM
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What's up with the day-glo orange color?
I love it, matches my headband and slap bracelet.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Elios000 View Post
then you didnt look very hard
That's not in the claims. So I don't think it counts.

It looks like the -600 patent is about telemetry, which is not what the OrangeRX transmitter module does. The -320 seems to be the patent that's supposed to cover DSM2. It's not issued yet, so we'll see how that turns out. Even if it's granted there could still be prior art making it invalid.
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