Originally Posted by phil alvirez

I realize I am probably going to cop some flak for the following, However after a number of attempts at trying to set the 9xr up, I will say that I think that while this appears to be a great radio, but trying to set this up is a bloody atrcious. I feel that there is no true step by step manual, no explanations of the possible results. At the moment I am trying to set up to fly my t-rex 500, with the dx-7 no prob futaba 9cap no prob, the xr, crap. The throttle will not close totally, and the throtte screen is blinking in and out, if I change to another model, the screen is solid, but throttle not operating, obviously it is something I am doing not the radios fault, it is something I have done,, but nowhere can you just read a manual to see why or how to fix it, no manual, you know the one that is clear, that comes with name brand radios.

A couple of people have made similar comments, and maybe the 9XR is not really suitable for sale as a mass-market product with this software. However, consider how it came about ..

Firstly a series of clever and unpaid people wrote new software for the original 9X radio. That software would have been taken up by people who like that sort of thing, tinkerers and electronic hobbyists, people who read about the software and liked what it did. People who took the trouble to modify their radio to be able to load the software, and did so with their eyes open. Somewhere along the line manuals were written for the software, but these were never bang up to date or 100% correct, but everyone understood that.

Now Hobby King decided to release a new radio, and decided not to pay for development of their own software but simply to help themselves to what had already been developed. They didn't bother to write a manual either, just took an existing ER9X manual and stuck their name on the front.

Is anyone surprised that it's not beginner friendly?

More constructively on the 9xforum there is a specific message board where questions about mixes and templates can be asked and answered. Again this is on a goodwill basis.

There will be many people, I predict, who will not be able, or wish to go to the trouble, of coping with the learning curve associated with the new firmware.

Just as the majority of 9X users never changed their firmware and lived with the deficiencies of the stock firmware.

Hobbyking should have, and still should, make a few minor mods to the stock 9X firmware and release it for the XR. It already can be loaded, but the backlight won't work as it's firmware driven. HK could fix that up, make the menu buttons work in the right directions, modify the flight phases so they are usable and then promote it as an alternative for those potential XR users who are already used to it.

Better still, release the stock 9X firmware source and let those changes and perhaps others be made by the user community.

Originally Posted by phil alvirez

terrific. thanks for the link. and the price is right.

now, is there any tray for this radio too?
at a reasonable price?

for the guys who like to hang the tx from their chest/neck.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260954859974...84.m1423.l2649

Its easy to program quads or fixed pitch helis on the 9xr or gliders or basic 4 channel planes so therefore it is a beginners radio. It gets more tricky for advanced gliders or cp helis but that's the case with all radios. Yes the finless bob vids are great when you have a popular radio but I've had it with helifreak. Twice I mentioned that I'm flying my quad with the 9xr to get responses that its junk and how can I fly such a junk tx. And they claim that site is for mutual respect. Not true.

It always goes this way it seems. Someone sticks his head above the papapet and admits he has difficulty learning how to use the XR firmware and immediately he is told that it is easy. So he feels inadequate and he and others like him are often unwilling to come to places like this and either seek help or register their concern.

What you meant to say, Chris, is that YOU believe it is easy. But those who don't are not stupid or incompetent because they have a different experience, it is more common than not.

I'm a user of and an advocate for OPEN9X. However I did experience a learning curve with this that took me a while and some effort to get over. I was able to handle the stock 9X firmware without this steep learning curve, and would still be using it if it actually contained the functionality that it claims to, I wouldn't have had to change.

Many people in the club I belong to looked at the ER9X/OPEN9X firmware briefly and decided that it was just too hard. There are two of us who use it now, out of 150 members. We have shown the others, explained it, given a presentation and offered to modify the radios of those who bought 9xs to enable flashing. But for them, too hard.

It's wrong for the evangelists for the open firmware to simply dismiss these others as being of no consequence. We should be listening and looking for ways to develop firmware that is more widely usable. Just my opinion.

post 5180
and it is an opinion worth millions of dollars, sir.
that is, if wisdom can be measured in terms of materialistic things like money.

many more people could be buying this extraordinary radio if we had a manual written in clear, correct english and with examples of how to do what is needed.
i said something like this before in post 4811/page 321:
a perspective based on experience
i can say that have experience-and therefore knowledge-on aerodynamics, as have been designing models for many years (see my blog).
but i don't have experience in programming the new sophisticated radios.
and i recall when i got started into r/c, and also then being away for 9 years, at my return, having to learn all over-and being 9 years older, how difficult it felt to control an airplane.
recently when i went to test a new plane, and it was very windy and turbulent, but had no problem flying it, came to memory my earlier experiences, and that made me think how different things look depending on our expertise.
for you guys that master programming these radios, it shows that it seems impossible to understand the ordeal that we have to go through for even simple (for you) details that you do without even thinking.
i have heard experts talking to a beginner and saying: 'look, it's very easy'.
or Bob Ross, the painter, saying: it's very easy', and doing all kind of things.
and once he said: 'i have done over 20,000 paintings'. oh, well, after that experience, all seems easy.
so it's a matter of perspective.
1 more thing: for some, watching a video is all that it takes.
but for others, that need time to study the context, and/or are used to printed matter, it is easier to read printed instructions-a manual.

and about post 5176, an explanation:


details
this is what i posted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by neale
Hi guys;
I realize I am probably going to cop some flak for the following, However after a number of attempts at trying to set the 9xr up, I will say that I think that while this appears to be a great radio, but trying to set this up is a bloody atrcious. I feel that there is no true step by step manual, no explanations of the possible results. At the moment I am trying to set up to fly my t-rex 500, with the dx-7 no prob futaba 9cap no prob, the xr, crap. The throttle will not close totally, and the throtte screen is blinking in and out, if I change to another model, the screen is solid, but throttle not operating, obviously it is something I am doing not the radios fault, it is something I have done,, but nowhere can you just read a manual to see why or how to fix it, no manual, you know the one that is clear, that comes with name brand radios.
A couple of people have made similar comments, and maybe the 9XR is not really suitable for sale as a mass-market product with this software. However, consider how it came about ..

Firstly a series of clever and unpaid people wrote new software for the original 9X radio. That software would have been taken up by people who like that sort of thing, tinkerers and electronic hobbyists, people who read about the software and liked what it did. People who took the trouble to modify their radio to be able to load the software, and did so with their eyes open. Somewhere along the line manuals were written for the software, but these were never bang up to date or 100% correct, but everyone understood that.

Now Hobby King decided to release a new radio, and decided not to pay for development of their own software but simply to help themselves to what had already been developed. They didn't bother to write a manual either, just took an existing ER9X manual and stuck their name on the front.

Is anyone surprised that it's not beginner friendly?

More constructively on the 9xforum there is a specific message board where questions about mixes and templates can be asked and answered. Again this is on a goodwill basis.

>>>i agree with these comments, and thank aesmith for the credit, but it was neale who made them.

Originally Posted by LowThudd

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260954859974...84.m1423.l2649

and this is another great link.

thanks again sir.

Originally Posted by phil alvirez

>>>i agree with these comments, and thank aesmith for the credit, but it was neale who made them.

Sorry - I must have cropped the wrong bit from your message. For some reason quotes in your post don't format as quotes.

Originally Posted by aesmith

Sorry - I must have cropped the wrong bit from your message. For some reason quotes in your post don't format as quotes.

no problem.

i found this of interest regarding probabilities of failure of everything:


There is no such thing as 100% QA because QA does not and can not afford to test every item produced and even then if every item were to be tested a small proportion of product will fail soon after being placed in service and a small proportion will fail after long use. (Infantile and mature failures are the usual modes of failure unless physically damaged ).

Originally Posted by pmackenzie

If you are getting frustrated and can be a bit patient, I will be back home in the same time zone in a week and I will have my 9X and a 450 heli that I can actually put my hands on.

I am sure we can get yours set up and working then, either through this thread or via email/skype/something.

(I am in Germany right now at the F3P world champs. Not using my 9X though . Not because of any programming advantage that my 9303 has, just because of the better sticks. Given my position in the contest, not sure it is making any difference )

Pat MacKenzie

ok pat im also thinking that i wonder if my channels are correct for this radio.i plugged it in from the same channels i had my hobbyking radio 6 channel on. would this setupbe different? anyway ill wait to here from ya pat.

Originally Posted by phil alvirez

i found this of interest regarding probabilities of failure of everything:


There is no such thing as 100% QA because QA does not and can not afford to test every item produced and even then if every item were to be tested a small proportion of product will fail soon after being placed in service and a small proportion will fail after long use. (Infantile and mature failures are the usual modes of failure unless physically damaged ).

Absolutely. Having worked as QA in high volume production lines some years ago, it was absolutely impossible to 100% QA on a day to day basis. (well ... apart from on one line of EXTREMELY expensive pharmaceutical moudings where EVERY single one was inspected 4 times!!!) The only time it was 'normally' done 100% is if there was a QA reject rate that was more than the relevant line product specification permitted. Then, it got costly as a 100% check is then done, and the line held until cleared and rectified. Particularly costly if it was an assembly of parts. The joys of production lines eh? lol!!!

Concerning the 'difficulty' or 'ease' of working with the 9X-R firmware.

Those that find it easy at first 'hands on' are I suspect in the minority. Those who have had experience with similar firmwares on the older 9X of course will find it easy.

I suspect the problem falls with those that have had zero experience with what is actually a very complex system - and it may just be that there are so many options and ways of doing things, they get bogged down it what is on offer and cannot see the woods for the trees.

My first try of it on my 9X with ERSKY9X resulted in me taking four hours to figure out how to get the throttle stick to move the servo! A week later, however, I had performed complex mixes and had a fully setup 12 channel Freewing Eurofighter 360VT EDF.
Doing that same thing in my Futaba set took an hour or less reading from the manual, but was nowhere near as much fun!

Originally Posted by abletowinginc

ok pat im also thinking that i wonder if my channels are correct for this radio.i plugged it in from the same channels i had my hobbyking radio 6 channel on. would this setupbe different? anyway ill wait to here from ya pat.

You can actually use any channel order you want, just set up the mixers to suit.

But I think the file you posted had it in Futaba order, so the one I posted I did the same way your was.

It would be

ch1 front/rear cyclic
ch2 left or right cyclic
ch3 throttle
ch4 rudder
ch5 gyro gain
ch6 the other cyclic servo

It could be that ch1 and ch2 need to be swapped since Futaba is actually AETR

Pat MacKenzie