|Apr 30, 2012, 12:08 PM|
Hi Guys, I just wanted to post re that other flight controller. Give it some time to mature, I know it's exciting to see but NO ONE has had their hands on it other then that company rep. They have a LONG way to go before proving it's reliable - let alone functional down there.
I am sorry to hear of the issues re the WooKong down there I can tell you that it would kill me too. I have to say, in response to some posters with fly aways. This isn't persay a Souther hemisphere thing. There have been more than a few people that have had fly aways or other issues and most are related to wrong setup. Not trying to minimize the fly away issue, as it's happened. But I CAN see why DJI wouldn't jump at replacing it since there are so many variables other then the WooKong that could lead to a failure. Likely a combination of issues. I only say this because while I know the GPS issue is very real and it affects performance of it, that in itself shouldn't cause a non retrievable fly away. Anyhow, I would like to think that issue was a 1 in 5000 issue - (dare to dream?)
I also want to say for the record if my unit flew away never to be seen again....I would do exactly as velociraptor did and contact them and get to the bottom of it. I would literally be sick about it, simply because I don't have unlimited money to throw at this. If I had the cash, hell I would send you some of my gear to keep you flying....Best of luck.
Re the new flight controller. I think it looks pretty cool. but there is even more complexity there and don't think for one minute it is yet desesrving of your dollars. The reality is with many of these products, YOU become the product tester and as such accept that risk. I feel that flight controller is sort of V1.0 hardware and I will let it mature before jumping on board - and read me when I say this, there is no way this flight controller will drive DJI into the ground. No one is going to drop their pants on price and kill the market, DJI defined it and I assure you this controller will slip into that pocket. Where the competition will be is in features for dollar - and I am very happy to see another player. This will up the game and frankly I agree with many of you, some competition will keep DJI honest and productive and reactive. Right now if you don't want a WooKong there aren't a lot of comparable/simple options out there.
Best of luck guys, and I have to say - I do believe this issue will get resolved. Not likely as fast as you guys want (and that's unfortunate) but at lease it will.
In flying my WooKong, I will say the GPS hold is cool but it will take me some time to trust it - that an really Atti mode is where it's at for most FPV fun
Good luck guys, you have my support and I wish you the best in this.
|Apr 30, 2012, 05:20 PM|
After reading about some here having some mild success after 8pm in AUS I decided to go out and try it myself last night.. I went out to my usual spot at 1130 PM , waited for sat lock on the ground, ( and waited another 2 mins after ) then gave it a go. I had recalibrated the compass also just for good measure.
It was just as hopeless as the middle of the day. less than one minute of flight and ALL red flashes came back and it toilet bowled like mad. Very disappointed.
So back to patiently waiting for DJI to send someone to AUS . Its been going on for AGES now..... please DJI can you make this happen ?
I am seeing some nice vids of XA V2 GPS locks in AUS... if they can do it ( and they are scammers to say the least ) then why can't DJI get their finger out ?>???????
|May 01, 2012, 02:25 AM|
My Wookong-M flew like a dream in GPS mode and when it used to frequently loose sat lock it would just not hold position, but as I usually keep flying around as I don't like to be standing hovering, most of the time I not even noticed, except for sometimes seen the red leds blinking at the distance and always thinking "this gps is a very crappy one or am I doing something wrong here?!"
And I use to check everything from time to time but all was correctly set.
I didn't bother it loosing satellites lock, It would fly almost the same in my hands by the way I fly and I was too excited looking to fly it more and more, but return home was another story!
I tested it at least 3 times and in all it behaved weirdly. But then I just disengaged RTH and a few seconds later it use to become stable again and I could recover control and bring it back safely las it shows in some of my videos.
The flight when my Wookong flew away was my last try to make RTH to work, if I couldn't I would be sure it really had a problem as I was starting to suspect. Initially I just thought I was doing something wrong, but I tried everything over and over in the 4 weeks I had it. Before that flight I re-checked everything, I had the GPS antenna around 22cm over the frame to avoid any chances of magnetic interference and previously re-arranged all electronics on frame, all controls and nav options, including wookong fail safe was checked working and lighting up correctly in assistant software, battery was charged and in this flight I also decided to try the FPV googles.
There I went!
Transmitter on, plug the battery, did the compass calibration, waited for all 3 red blinks go away, run the motors, wait another 12 seconds with motors running to make sure wookong had a good home position lock and took off!
FPV camera (Fatshark CCD killer) had quite a narrow angle of view compared to the video I was used to see from my onboard GoPro. So I was a bit disorientated trying to fly it. Ended up loosing signal as I wents flying behind the house without noticing it. Took googles out and went visually looking for the bird. Took me a few seconds to spot it hovering dangerously close to some trees at the distance and drifting slightly to their direction. Didn't know wich direction to pull the stick to bring it back, I was afraid the wrong move would crash it on the trees. So I decided that this was the time to do the return home test. The worst that could happen in my mind was crashing on the trees, something that could happen anyway if I did a wrong move.
Return home switch goes on and the bird starts to vertically gaining altitude without moving horizontally and I thought "Wow! This time it's working!!!!"
But when It reached the trees top it just took off for the oposite direction with the wind, away from me and over the trees top, disappearing before I could have any reaction.
I hold my breath waiting to see if it would come back. 20-30 seconds passed and nothing. Went out looking for it for 2 days but never found it.
This situation was the perfect and classical example why I decided to buy the Wookong!
I wanted a system that could help me out of trouble to avoid loosing my multirotor.
That is why I payed more than a $1000 for a flight controller, to make sure I was buying something that was proven to work from a reliable company that had a proven system that could help me out of this kind of situations.
The name says it all, it's a "Go Home Fails Safe!" isn't it?
Did it work?
Then where is my money DJI?
I lost almsot everything I had planed and invested for in a long time to put up a nice little FPV multi-rotor. I was just waiting the S800 to be released to buy it togheter with a naza controller. So I would have the S800 with Wookong and the Gaui500X with the naza. Perfect plan I thought!
All that was left was chargers at the house, transmitter on my hands and the Fatshark Google on my head.
Who's fault it is?
I say it's DJI's!
Because their product didn't do what it was supposed to!
They says it's mine!
Because my radio didn't have a fail safe!
So was it my fault? My Turnigy 9X that didn't have fail safe?
What would a transmitter fail safe have done to avoid this if the wookong fail safe itself was already activated and DID NOT WORK!!!!?
DJI already knew I was flying a Turnigy 9X. When I was building my multirotor I wrote them asking for help programing my transmitter as it would be a lot easier to ask them help them just try to figure it out. But they answered they didn't have a 9X, so they could not help me and programming should be the same as with other transmitters. No mention to avoid it.
I had been flying foamies and motorgliders for more than a year with my Turnigy 9X, never needed to do any complex programming but I printed the Wookong and 9X manuals and spent almost two days studying it and also watching some 9X programming tutorials videos on youtube.
I had programming done and I'm sure it was very well done! Everything working absolutely perfect on assistant software on all the times I checked and re-cheked it after or prior to almost every flight I did.
I also had another 9X with ER9X and FRSky module with a friend that was going to configure it for me. But he was out of time and I didn't bother as my original 9X was working beautifully.
If I knew Wookong had a problem in south hemisphere I would not risk. But as I did not know and it worked so wonderfully in RTH mode for everyone else at the forum I kept trying it and looking to find a fix for the problem until it eventually went lost.
So many people in the forums and DJI told me the problem would be my 9X that I eventually had to swallow it. Even told some other guys at the forums to avoid using 9X with Wookong, but many did and had no problems!
Then a few weeks later I find this thread alerting users about the south hemisphere problems describing the same symptoms mine also had before going lost.
Or if I'm wrong please someone correct me if the issues I had with Wookong was not the same you guys in Australia are experiencing.
Honestly I expected DJI to at least give me a discount to buy another Wookong so I could pre-order the S800.
But they didn't answer to any of the requests or proposals I did to them to help me with this situation and keep investing with them. I even had plans to resell their products in my country (Brazil).
I decided to leave everything I was doing and start with multirotors for a new carrer in aerial filming, I have a photography degree and a love for filming and flying RC stuff. I have been training with small 4ch helis and simulators for quite a good time. I know I still have a lot to improve but I can do squares, eights, fly nose in and all the basic stuff.
But my plans went upside down and I'm running out of money.
It will take me some time to recover and get to where I was 3 months ago.
But I won't give up! When I recover financially I will get the best system I can find, probably 2 or 3 of them to have it as a back up. But I won't trust DJI again! Even if they still have the best system when I'm ready to invest I will make sure I also buy other companies products to avoid depending only on DJI equipments. And I also think that for a mass production company their products are well overpriced since they have no guarantee or real customers support when it's most needed.
I think DJI products should not cost anywhere near how much they are asking for their stuff. But I had hopes this was a sort of guarantee for having an excellent customers service, witch is now obviously not!
Any product can and probably will have bugs, what really makes the difference is the responsible way companies react to their products problems and assit their clients. Provisions for that are always calculated in products price and I believe Wookong market price has a large margin to cover for that. But they seems to prefer do look the other way instead.
After all that, what can I think about DJI?
You guys can only guess...
Sorry to bother you guys again with all that but I hope to reach as many people as I can so they know what to expect from DJI before putting their hard earned money into their "revolutionary" products.
I'm sure DJI will not be market leader for too long with this kind of attitude, specially in south hemisphere.
And revolutionary products from other companies seems to be coming strong after them with better prices. If they prove to have a better attitude with customers, I will surely suport them the best way I can!
|May 01, 2012, 04:10 AM|
You tried RTH a few times but none of them had worked before. It puzzles me that you had another go because previous attempts were unsuccessful. The result was consistently unsuccessful RTH thus the fly away.
WKM manual says that you can regain control when performing RTH if you switch the flying mode to manual. I dont like activating RTH by turning off my tx so I assign a switch to trigger failsafe and I leave the throttle at mid-stick position. Whenever something went wrong I flip a switch to manual and regain control of the copter. I had an instance where I felt the copter was moving too fast to my launch position so I regain control by flicking the switch to manual mode and it worked. Well, when my gear works, it works beautifully.
The same manual (even the earlier version of the manual) also says that you need to assign failsafe to all channels, something that some tx do not have in their feature list.
Also, if there are other Brazilians who got the same issues like what we're having in Oz, please chime in. So back to the topic, where's the fix DJI?
|May 01, 2012, 06:30 AM|
Don't worry about giving me a hard time, I'm here in the forum to discuss and learn, specially from people who have a oposite point of view from mine.
Although 9X does not have fail safe in the receiver I had the gear switch configured to activated Wookong fail safe (RTH). And if I'm right once the wookong goes into RTH it just ignore any other inputs. So no need for radio fail safe if you are not planing to fly near transmitter range limits.
Do you agree with that?
If anyone can prove me the original Turnigy 9X doesn't work with wookong in RTH mode I have no problem being humble enough to apologize to DJI and everyone else.
But so far no one wanted or could do it.
Before when I tried RTH it just went flying violently from one side to the other but after switching off RTH it took a few seconds and then regained control in GPS or ATTI mode just like you say you also did.
But on the occasion it went lost I let it go as that time RTH appeared to be working right, going straight vertical before heading home like it should, when it suddenly took off to the oposite direction I didn't have the time to switch back to GPS or ATTI mode as it went out of sight too quickly and I also wasn't prepared for taking action as it initially seemed to be going good.
Recently I contacted 7 wookong user in Brazil. One says he never had any problems as he told me Terry from DJI helped him with his setup. Don't know if that helps but he lives in the north of Brazil not too far Equator line. Other 2 say they managed to reasonably fix satellite lock putting metal plates under GPS antenna. Another also told me he had RTH problems and lost his multirotor in a fly away.
All other wookong user are having the same issues with GPS and RTH I described.
If I knew I had a defective unit I would have sent it for checking by DJI, although I now believe they would send it back to me saying it was perfect. It was my first multirotor and I was in doubt if I had something not set correctly or a real defective unit. As defective units seemed to be a very rare case, I keept flying it while trying to find something I could be doing wrong about GPS lock and RTH, but when I ruled out any possible magnetic interference, It went lost!
And today I still haven't found any problems my setup that could explain the wookong issues I had if not for the south hemisphere bug.
But please you are my guest to tell me if I'm loosing something that could turn the facts for the oposite side. I would feel better knowing that I was the only responsible for loosing my multirotor than falling victim of a faulty expensive product from a company that has no respect or consideration for customers.
Recently I lost 1.2 million dolars and went bankrupted. After a few weeks trying to find who was responsible for that I came to the conclusion it was mostly me. So I'm turning the page and restarting my life again. I have no problem assuming the responsibility for my mistakes.
But I think that if wookong didn't have the south hemisphere problem I would be quite happy still flying it today.
|May 01, 2012, 08:53 AM|
|May 01, 2012, 12:01 PM|
TNTJET, there is no coming out wrong with me. Just say what you thing and we talk about it.
Some people don't like it but it's just what I do.
Wookong would not know, that is why the RTH was set at the gear switch. This way I could switch wookong RTH without having to turn off the transmitter, just like most pilots do.
Do you have your return home mode configured to activate manually on your transmitter?
Did you do it by setting the switch to activate the receiver fail safe or wookong fail safe?
When the 9X loose signal the receiver sticks on the last comand from TX.
If I had lost 2.4GHz TX signal when I lost 5.8ghz video I guess it would not respond to RTH switch and would be just hoovering there or hitting the trees instead of gaining altitude as it did and should do when RTH kicks in, isn't it?
|May 01, 2012, 12:41 PM|
The way I see it there are two seperate problems that came to a head. One is your responsibility one is DJI's. For your part you had a controller that's not capable of setting failsafe to all channels or setting a preset failsafe state, for DJI's part, the GPS doesn't work well down south. It was the perfect storm. While some blame does fall on DJI, a proper failsafe (radio) would have prevented a fly away. It may have resulted in a crash/hard descent since RTH was failing, but the fact that it flew away, is not DJI's fault. It's failure to not return to home however is their fault, but they make NO guarantees or promises that RTH will work 100% of the time. Satellites drop out and come into view all the time. The same thing could ABSOLUTELY happen to me here in Canada if I had no proper failsafe and when in return to home I lost Tx signal and the GPS lost the requisite number of satellites it's going to drift with the wind at the very least, fly away to some other owner at the worst and most likely just crash.
Ok - please understand this is a dispassionate view of the situation - but my concern is that DJI has been blamed for the fly away. I don't see that as being their fault so dragging them in the mud on that basis is not fair to them. However they ABSOLUTELY are to blame for the Poor GPS performance in the southern hemisphere. It's a pretty epic screwup on their part and they should be somewhat shamed. This product only works properly for half the planet (note I didn't say half the population)
I see your point and sympathise. The issue of the flyaway however is more complex then just "DJI at fault". I hope you see what I mean here. And again I mean no dissrespect - if I was in your shoes I would be at least as choked and 10 times as angry
|May 01, 2012, 05:23 PM|
Nice thinking Magnumb!
You have been the only one to technically try to solve this perfect storm as you pointed.
By the way, are you a DJI support guy, engineer or a reseller?
I've been waiting to have a discussion with DJI guys since when I managed to come out of chock state and crawled out of my bed to the shower a few days after the the loss! LOL
But DJI guys seems to have a policy to keep quiet and let the snowball roll, unfortunately!
But lets go down to the points as I may slightly disagree from some of your points of view.
"Not necessarily, It accepts last command input which is happening at a furious rate in GPS hold or RTH since it's doing all it can to maintain altitude, travel to home point etc. If for instance the wind gust died and it decended the controller would send a command to maintain altitude, it would climb, if you go to failsafe at that moment (or millisecond for that matter) it's just going to keep on going up and fly away with the wind OR in whatever direction it was last compensating to maintain heading a course. "
Remember it climbed just after I switched RTH on transmitter switch. What it seems to me is as if it was climbing to RTH altitude (20m) when lost sat lock and went drifting or maybe even accelerating with the wind over the trees.
But I could not link this attitude to radio fault.*
"a proper failsafe (radio) would have prevented a fly away"
I don't think so as it was already in RTH mode and running away!
The radio fail safe would just give the FC a redundant command.
" but they make NO guarantees or promises that RTH will work 100% of the time"
But they also didn't say it NEVER would work. It should work at least once but all tests that I did in different locations and occasions, all failed miserably! And I also felt miserably thinking it was my fault on most but the last one!
"The same thing could ABSOLUTELY happen to me here in Canada if I had no proper failsafe and when in return to home I lost Tx signal and the GPS lost the requisite number of satellites it's going to drift with the wind at the very least, fly away to some other owner at the worst and most likely just crash."
Agree about loosing satellites, that is what I think that happened.
But frequently loosing satellite lock, even under 360* of clear sky above it?
Not even some trees close by at one side should spoil sat lock.
And I don't think a proper fail safe would have helped, remember that Wookong fail safe was already on. And without sat lock no matter what kind of fail safe it is, there is no help!
"I don't see that as being their fault so dragging them in the mud on that basis is not fair to them"
I reckon it is arguable where do they responsibility ends and where mine comes in. But in the best scenario for them they had a defective product but lost nothing. I on the other hand may had a partial responsibility, but I lost $3000.
Please let me drawn them into their own mud! That is all I can do to confort my feelings!
I know its not a nice attitude but it's all I'm left with as not even a proper technical answer to my emails they gave me! You did a lot more to try to clear this storm in one page than they ever did in 3 months!
And of course they could come out and defend themselves, but as I said, their policy seems to let the snow ball roll, so let it be it!
*But they may could have rulled me out with a little technical explanation!
As you said my radio didn't have fails safe in all channels.
Has anyone ever tried to do RTH without activating fails safe in all the radio channels?
This is the answer I have been waiting to hear from DJI that may change quite a bit my view from this accident. But I don't have it yet as they refused to explain me!
|May 01, 2012, 05:32 PM|
Well, indeed you make a couple good points there.
It was in failsafe mode...in the absense of sufficient sattelites I believe the WK-M just lands itself (or as some like to say - slow crashes itself) So i suppose that doesn't explain the fly away per say. Could it be there is an aspect to the WooKong in the code that absolutely requires a pre set failsafe no matter what? Could it be that in the code even if in failsafe already to get it into RTH if it looses signal without a preset failsafe it may still take some other "last" input command.
I don't want to conjecture, but I see a bit of what your getting at. It's a bit of a chicken and the egg thing, and of course no one wants to test that
I hear you, I can imagine how you felt. While I smaller scale, I just completely fried a new Spectrum Radio Dx8 in the most rediculous freak accident of my adault career....just buy it...BOOM gone. I had to crawl out of bed the next day because my wife sleeps beside me She woulda kicked me out hahahah Anyhow while on a smaller scale that loss alone "hurt my feelings"
|May 01, 2012, 05:37 PM|
I just had a thought....fail safe of a radio and WKM are different. If you had it in RTH mode, your reciever will still feed it the last command. Is it possible it used last stick position? if so all it would do is override the RTH and drift off maintaining altitude perhaps
I don't know...only a theory. But I like problem solving.
Oh BTW I am not related to DJI in any way. I am sure if I was operating outside of the iron curtain giving free adivce they would send their assassins after me
|May 02, 2012, 05:43 AM|
In your case raptor you may have had rth on a switch and worked fine but the moment rc signal was lost rth switch would be null , and may have put f.c into a mode or condition it has not been programmed for armed. Not withstanding that even if you had a failsafe radio and and it did go into rth without any satellites it would have drifted away (max transmit range to which you probably wouldn't know copters orientation) so I would agree with magnum ,dji have sold a product wich doesn't perform as advertised in certain regions that we are more than aware of , and the fact that your radio system was incapable of operating a system that specifically requires a failsafe radio system.
|May 02, 2012, 10:24 AM|
All I know is that my 9X range is more than 1km, I never flown further than 300m. Even when out of range 9X RX locks to the last input commands. I did everything I could going further than DJI says it's necessary to make Wookong work correctly, even placing the GPS antenna more than 20cm higher than frame electronics to rule out any magnetic interference.
The RTH mode was working correctly in assistant software and the lack of all channels radio fail safe would have only been relevant if I didn't already have RTH activated and/or lost radio range. Things that I'm pretty confident did't happen until at least the multi-rotor was already out of sight. 4 RTH tests that never worked no matter what and a GPS that was frequently loosing GPS satellites in south hemisphere. Plus other pilots in south hemisphere seems to have experienced the same erratic behavior mine showed in RTH mode, even do they have fail safe in all channels. Everything seems to point to wookong GPS problems.
And DJI assumes no or any level of responsibility for their mistake, even avoiding giving a word or any kind of feedback also for the users who didn't loose their equipment but have a $1000 non working unit on their hands.
What kind of company is this?
Yes, I'm out of my mind with them and for good reasons I think!
I know they overprice their products quite a bit, especially if you consider they are a mass production company with much lower costs than the concurrents that are usually small back yard companies buying small lots of parts at much greater prices. At lest I expected an excellent customers service and a company that stand behind their products for what I paid.
Now it's clear this is not the case. They seems to have a great product in their hands (wookong) but are spoiling their brand name because of little measures that they should but are not taking and I can't understand why if not for been just a rip off company.
DJI is a wird company and they behave as if they had something to hide, maybe a Chinese thing, but I not sure. All i figured out so far is that they seems to sell cheap stuff very overpriced. I've been testing the Naza fc last few days and I can say I haven't got to the point where is seems to be worth $230. A heli stabilization system like Flymentor do a lot mor for a heli than the Naza does for a multirotor. Flymentor is $70.
Wookong-M is not much different, when it works its wonderful. But for $1000 is a quite expensive price tag. That could be justified for an excellent factory support, but that doesn't seems to be the case. And if it doesn't work when you need it's worth nothing.
Emotion and technically I hardly believe they are not responsible for my loss, at least partially, even in the best scenario for them.
But they way they behave I think it's fair that I present my experience and point of view to other users so they know what to expect from DJI specially as they don't have yet much other options when it comes to expensive multirotor satellite guided multirotors flight controllers.
DJI made an angry enemy of me. And I will not keep quiet about my insatisfactions with their products and attitude. And the more I know their products, financially compare with other brands and read other more experienced users opinions that are not related with them, the less I like DJI.
Hopefully other similar products from other companies will soon take over the hole they are leaving behind.
Thanks for your support and patience with me guys.
Hope this posts will help DJI to hurry and fix the south hemisphere problem asap, even if I have no expectations of a solution for my situation.
Al the best and good flights for everyone! (always in ATTI mode and without relying in RTH, of course!)
|May 03, 2012, 08:27 PM|
Australia, New South Wales, St Leonards
Joined Aug 2009
Any Aussie WKM user upgrade the Firmware to 5.04? yes, new firmware is up , but not to fix our GPS drift issue, but worth trying, my F550 crashed last weekend, pilot error so I am grounded untill new Graupner prop arrive. Plus DJI is sending me a new GPS unit to test in Sydney, anyone wish to see how the new GPS unit performs in their own copter is more than welcome to contact me in PM or we can setup another meeting in Sydney to test the new GPS unit from DJI.
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