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Old Apr 04, 2012, 06:15 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABLomas View Post
Tom, could You test this cam against #16 and check lens angle?
I had one of older (IIRC they we're upgraded about 2012.03 to another lens) #16, and main problem was too narrow view.
#18 has the same narrow angle lens? If so, not so usefull for flying - too sensitive to vibrations... Would wait for ful HD cam with 120 lens ;-)
OK, the #18 is not going to be your cup of tea for FPV, even though it has AV Out. Here's frame grabs from a #16 and #18 shot side-by-side at the same time. The #18 has noticeably narrower AOV as well as over-saturated and very warm hue compared to the #16. The #18 can be better focused also, I think, but I won't be trying it while I'm still using the camera in an evaluation mode... don't want to brick it like I did my #11. But then, the #18 can load in new boot loader from a flash card, so maybe it's not as prone to becoming a door stop!
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Old Apr 04, 2012, 06:38 PM
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Nice shots. the lamp post and larger side of the hill, while the date stamp matchs up the #16 wins. Some Hue , not going to blame the cam just how I see it

I see two totally different pics when clicking Lol
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 02:41 AM
g0t rabb1t?
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Lietuva, Vilnius
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Thanks Tom. Seems i will wait a bit (or better, buy another RD32 II).
And colors... meh.
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 03:42 AM
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Tom, are you sure the camera has a micro USB? From the picture it looks more like an 8-pin mini USB.

I don't like micro USB plugs or sockets, they are too fiddly to connect, but I know they will be the new standard in cell phones .

The slightly thicker casing seems a good idea.

I don't need AV-out, so there's no point in a #18 when the #16 is so much better. The option to update a #11 with the same firmware is a great idea, but unfortunately not for me - the 20 min. clips would create at least 30 files on my 32GB cards!! And I certainly don't want loop-recording!!, and no time stamp either, and non standard AVI is no good either, and I do hope there's a blinking LED while recording - lots of firmware versions - 32 with only 5 settings for all combinations (2^5). Very roughly calculated, a combination of all the possible settings with the #16 would give a lot more than 1024 firmware versions (2^10, but some parameters have more than 2 possible values)... oh dear, good try, better luck next time...

I guess for those who need recording and AV-out there's no other choice, but it's too bad the firmware is missing all the great functionality of the #16. And I wonder about those heavy? AV cables - is that what FPV/RPV R/C pilots use these days?
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 05:42 AM
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I guess the #11 will be deprecated very soon after the launch of this #18. Nice cam but not a WOW one yet. What will impress the majority is the upgraded version of #16, with LARGE internal space for the firmware. Exciting to see 30+ configurable stuffs
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 05:59 AM
STOP DUMBING DOWN MY SKY
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Thanks for kicking this off Tom.
I do wonder if you should be doing side by side comparisons with the #16 as this gives the impression that the #18 is progression on the #16 when it is more of a #11 Mk2?
Just think it needs be clear that this is a progression made by the makers of the #11 (in response to the #16).
It's difficult, because people will want to know how this compares to the #16, but will think it's a more advanced variant, when it's real point of reference is the #11.

The AV output is unique point that bares discussion, but as far as video quality etc goes then improvements are in relation to the #11. I can see it's got the newer style lens, but I don't see any other physical changes that relates to image quality, but maybe the firmware is better.
It looks to me like the #16 still produces better results then the #11, even in it's new incarnation.

I can't see the point in paying #16 prices for #11 quality unless I specifically wanted the AV option.
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 06:18 AM
Mtz
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If #18 is the next #11, maybe they should use the #17 name, not 18.
Because I expected #18 to be the next #16 with TV out, but maybe it will have the name: #20.
TV Out is a nice thing, but I prefer the colors of #16 now and most important than everything: improved firmware with many settings.

If I need to decide right now between #16 and #18 I take the #16. But maybe in the future the #18 producer will understand how important is the firmware development and listening and implementing the users requests.

For me the comparation with #11 is useless: same price, better product. Why to buy #11 now?

enjoy,
Mtz
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtz View Post
If #18 is the next #11, maybe they should use the #17 name, not 18.
Because I expected #18 to be the next #16 with TV out, but maybe it will have the name: #20.
TV Out is a nice thing, but I prefer the colors of #16 now and most important than everything: improved firmware with many settings.

If I need to decide right now between #16 and #18 I take the #16. But maybe in the future the #18 producer will understand how important is the firmware development and listening and implementing the users requests.

For me the comparation with #11 is useless: same price, better product. Why to buy #11 now?

enjoy,
Mtz
Better than the #11 in some cases: color hunting and AV-Out (if you need it).
Worse (for me): tiny 20 min. clips.

Much worse than the #16 (unless you need AV-Out): Colors not so good, no configuration file - which deprives the user of over 1024 possible configuration possibilities!!!!

Except for the AV-out, the #16 is in a different league altogether.

A year ago this camera would have been a hit, but when we have the #16 for comparison, this camera appears to be very disappointing. However, I will keep watching this thread with interest... Who knows...
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 07:45 AM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABLomas View Post
Tom, could You test this cam against #16 and check lens angle?
I had one of older (IIRC they we're upgraded about 2012.03 to another lens) #16, and main problem was too narrow view.
#18 has the same narrow angle lens? If so, not so usefull for flying - too sensitive to vibrations... Would wait for ful HD cam with 120 lens ;-)
With an added wide angle lens, wouldn't it be ok?
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 10:42 AM
Fidler & twidler
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Joined Mar 2004
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as usual
From somewhere I thought the 11,16 and 1080 were from the same developer, but the "18" is not from the same stable
Mike
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 10:57 AM
g0t rabb1t?
ABLomas's Avatar
Lietuva, Vilnius
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
With an added wide angle lens, wouldn't it be ok?
Dunno...
Colors and details from Tom screens.... I had #16, it wasn't good (on image details or video quality), but acceptable if i needed check something (for example, put it on wing to observe flutter).
This one looks terrible. No details, colors washed out...
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
as usual
From somewhere I thought the 11,16 and 1080 were from the same developer, but the "18" is not from the same stable
Mike
#16 is on his own. Tom probably knows more, but I think the #16 developer had something to do with the #11. I know the #16 developer knows the #11 developer well, but they are competitors - which makes life more interesting for us

It is also very apparent that the #16 developer monitors these threads and has implemented functions that most people want. I'm not sure the #18 developer does the same.

If the 1080, 11 and 18 developer is the same, he's too eager to put his product on the market before it's ready - at least that is so with the 1080. We'll see how the #18 goes and I don't want to speculate. Tom's our man
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 11:18 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Tom, are you sure the camera has a micro USB? From the picture it looks more like an 8-pin mini USB.
...
Good eye, Isoprop. You are correct... the #18 (and also the revised #1080 which now has AV Out) use an 8 pin plug. I don't know if that is a USB 2.0 standard configuration now or not... I thought USB 2.0 plugs were all 4 or 5 pins.

Anyway, the #18 plug is smaller! I couldn't even see the pins well enough to count them! Suffice it to say, don't connect anything to the #18 other than it's dedicated cables that come with it!

I've attached a close up picture showing the standard USB 5 pin Mini B plug that all the other 808 cameras use, the smaller 8-pin plug the #18 uses, and a true USB 5 pin Micro B plug my cell phone uses, which is the same width as the Mini but only half as thick. Whew!
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 11:32 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docinfrance View Post
Thanks for kicking this off Tom.
I do wonder if you should be doing side by side comparisons with the #16 as this gives the impression that the #18 is progression on the #16 when it is more of a #11 Mk2?
Just think it needs be clear that this is a progression made by the makers of the #11 (in response to the #16).
It's difficult, because people will want to know how this compares to the #16, but will think it's a more advanced variant, when it's real point of reference is the #11.
...
Well... in the very first sentence of the very first post I clearly state the #18 is an enhanced #11 (), and then proceed to only mention how it differs from the #11.

I've only referenced the #16 in direct response to a user question regarding how the lens AOV compares, or to avoid confusion when there are close similarities (e.g. the battery and ribbon cable plugs). I'll continue with this line of logic going forward.

I'll also add that I am not attempting to give opinions or recommendations on which camera is "better", because those are huge variables depending on who is using the cameras and for what purpose. Some want great image sharpness and color fidelity, some don't care about that and just want a wide (though distorted) angle of view, or want to be able to easily change a few "creature comfort" settings without flashing in new firmware. Others just want the camera to start when they turn on their car ignition! I've been acting at the request of the different developers to test their cameras and give feedback, which I do, pro and con. In some cases, this along with user feedback in these threads are considered and acted on for product improvement. In some cases, not. But these threads attracted a huge audience, MUCH more than I expected or even wanted given the effort it's taken to keep them on topic and updated with accurate information. And I'm sure the visibility and market exposure is a main reason the developers pursue this avenue since they don't advertise themselves that I know of other than through the eBay listing format. What I've gotten out of it is new cameras to test and use in my hobby, which is the main reason I've kept this up. When the flow stops, I'll be doing more flying and less typing!
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Old Apr 05, 2012, 11:42 AM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtz View Post
If #18 is the next #11, maybe they should use the #17 name, not 18.
Because I expected #18 to be the next #16 with TV out, but maybe it will have the name: #20.
...
Mtz
I don't care what numbers are used, but I do care how they are decided. As far as I'm concerned, the only numbering for these cameras should come from Chuck Lohr, who started this numbering scheme to differentiate the many different varieties that began using the same "808" style case design, but with very different circuitry and features. The #16 designation was arrived at and agreed upon between the developer and Chuck before it was introduced for sale. This was not the case for the #18, which was named independently by the (different) developer. Once this was mentioned to them, I think they withdrew the #18 designation from some eBay web pages, so maybe the #18 designation is not even appropriate now?
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