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Old Oct 27, 2012, 07:39 AM
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I take it there is no integrated software for this charger so you can create, modify, and store your presets on your PC?
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 07:41 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Desired defaults / feactures?

Here is a short list for a start. If you have preferences or feacture request post and I will attempt to keep this post updated.


Global settings to set to or turn Off or On :
Dsc. to Volts
Regen. into source
Start Balancing @
Turn Logging on / off.

Discharge to: 3.0 / 3.3 / 3.5
Start Blance at Allways / 3.0 / 3.8 / CV?





Copy / Duplicate Presets ( added by with limitations)

Computer software / interface to allow setting , naming,managing presets.

Computer software to read/display and manage charger's charges,discharges , cycle data which was logged to SD. Yes I know logview is available but not what I want.
Computer interface does do graphing now ,looks a lot like Logview

Instant IR checks . Added

Single button press to start a charge. ( IMO this could be a bit hazardous ,remember this charger is capable of charging at up to 40A per side and one could have the wrong side selected and also if both sides are used in sys. mode up to 70A output.) At present from Preset Menu 4 presses are required but defaults are yes.


Added: 11-8-12

ability to adjust max timer,capacity,termination voltage "on the fly"

an audible notice at cc/cv point (one loud notice)

another start "balance when" should be available after the "start at cv stage" like "start balance when current drops to x value" and shouldn't be a global setting either.

Charles
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Old Oct 27, 2012, 12:30 PM
Southern Pride
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6 ea.3S 2200 mAh in parallel 40A charge / 130watt discharge

Power Supply two IBM servers 12V 30A each for 24V 30A Total.

These 6 3S 2200 are some of my beat up questional condition ones I use for testing.

First connected all in parallel and resting voltage was 11.7 discharge set to 20A but there is a 130 watts max. as this was a single channel test.

Charger maintained 129 watts discharge, total dischage time 41:28 /
charger indicated 7,405 mAh discharge ,Inspector indicated 7.209 Ah

40A charge : Batteries 11.877 V cells 3.676 / 3.673 / 3.561

Charge rate of 40A reached in 40 seconds. 39.9 A maintained through outthe CC stage.

20:39 total charge time / charger indictaed 11045 mAh / Inspector 11.275Ah Max internal temp reached 105,ambient 75F.

Discharge to Storage 3.85 per cell. Max. Temp. reached 124F
32:16 / 4,423 mAh cells at 3.877 / 3.884 / 3.863

Charles
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 06:21 PM
Southern Pride
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Good news Mark, received Rev. 1.17 a couple of hours ago and Instant IR check has been added along with several other enhancements.
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 07:40 PM
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Outstanding!! Thanks for that Charles.

Looks like Junsi is listening to our collective desires and recommendations.

The 4010 Duo just may make it onto my shopping list.

Regards,
Mark
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 05:28 AM
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Has anyone suggested FastMod yet?

Here are also some suggestions from last year:

1) Fastmod LiXX Charging
I have recently learned about a new fast charge method for LiPos (and other Lixx packs).
This method is built up on the theory, that a cell can be divided into the charge storage (galvanic cell), and a resistor (the inner resistance).
When the cell is charged, the total cell voltage consists of both the voltage of the galvanic cell (charge storage), and the voltage drop across the resistor.
Important for the CV phase of the charge is only the voltage of the galvanic cell, but not the one of the resistor.
But normal chargers can only take the sum of both into account during a charge, thus reducing the charge current and terminating the charge process too early. One can easily see this, as most packs have a sudden voltage drop when the charger stops charging.
This new method makes little pauses during the charge without current. Then the voltage is checked. Without current, we do not have a voltage drop across the resistor; hence the charger only sees the actually important voltage of the galvanic cell.
During charge, the total cell voltage is allowed to go up to 4.35V (LiPo), but only, if the "resting voltage" (without current) of the cell stays at or below 4.20V.
It is said, that this considerably reduces charge time, while not compromising the batteries cycle life.
I think that this might be an interesting feature to add to the charger. I would gladly do the field testing work.

2) Charge termination on unbalanced packs
Every now and then, one hears complaints that an iCharger failed to balance a pack completely. One of my friends, who also bought an iCharger on my recommendation, ran into the same problem. I never have the problem, but this could be due to my setting “trickle charge on”.
I assume that the following is going on:
If a severely unbalanced pack is charged with a high current, the balancing process might not be finished by the time the current is reduced to 1/10. When the current is reduced to 1/10, the charge process stops, but the balancing is not finished yet.
So my suggestion would be to stop the charge process only, if all cells have the same voltage and are balanced.
Maybe, the message “BAL” could be displayed alternating/blinking at aht place of the current in the display, so that the user is informed why everything takes so long.

3) Set separate current reduction values for “alarm” and “charge termination”
As I read, many people want their batteries charged as fast as possible, and therefore choose the “fast charge” option, although the battery is not charged as full as possible here, like in the slower “balance charge” mode.
I think that there is a very elegant solution to the underlying problem.
One does not necessarily have to stop the charge, when the alarm sounds.
I once had a charger (Orbit Pocketlader), where one could set two different current reduction values for the alarm and the charge termination.
For example, 1/5 for the alarm, and 1/20 for the charge termination.
So, when the current is reduced to 1/5, the alarm sounds, and the user knows that the pack is ready, and can disconnect it. However, if the user does not need the pack yet, as he is having barbecue or a beer or he is still flying, the charge continues until the user has time to disconnect the pack. This way, the pack will be completely charged until 1/20 current reduction.
Many people really liked this feature on the Pocketlader.
This would leave you with two options, “balance charge” and “charge”. Either one would be as quick as the “fast charge”, but also totally complete at the same time, when one leaves the battery connected after the alarm.

4) NiXX forming charge
During the years, I noticed that NiXX packs which need a forming charge all behave quite different, so that the algorithm we once developed failed to work in some cases. As most people who want a forming charge are in no rush, it does not matter if it lasts a little longer.
Also, some people have a problem when they are supposed to set the capacity, as it is the case now, as they have to set a charge current in all other programs
So my suggestion would be this simple method, which should work with any pack:
a) set charge current
b) press start
Then, the chargers charges for 14h with the set current, and then terminates the charge. This way is more equal to the traditional forming charge people know.

Kind regards, Julian

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...d#post19399009

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...d#post18584972

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...d#post18587219
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Last edited by Julez; Nov 08, 2012 at 05:41 AM.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 06:47 AM
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Adding my "wishlist" based on a number of months using 306b.

voltage increments in 1 mv (3 decimal places)
ability to adjust max timer,capacity,termination voltage "on the fly"
an audible notice at cc/cv point (one loud notice)
balance without charge (maybe it has it already)
timer,capacity,termination voltage should be user selected as non-global or global settings
another start "balance when" should be available after the "start at cv stage" like "start balance when current drops to x value" and shouldn't be a global setting either.

Hey, maybe I should actually use my memory locations.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 11:21 AM
Southern Pride
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Voltage readings are to 3 decimal places and one thing I really ilke is that cell voltages are shown as soon as balancing leads are connected. No having to go to Monitor mode just to get this reading.


Balance only is an option .



Only Global seetins I have found are

Temperature & Fan C or F / Shut Down / Power Reduce

Beep Tone - Key Tone / Hint Tone / Alarm Tone / Done Deeps

LCD Screen- Brightness and contrast.



I believe there is a single tone at end of CC but not sure,need to pay more attation.(Nope)

Charge rate can be changed on the fly . My guess is that most will program and use Presets (memories) with this one a lot more than with the other iChargers. There are reported to be 64 slots available but I am only up to 16 at present. With the last update it is simple to get to the Preset Menu , six are displayed on the screen and scrolling up or down is easy and fast. Presets can be moved /rearanged very easily also which is very nice,aAlso they can be saved to a Micro SD card and reloaded. Each save can be automaticly sequencly numbered or you can custom name them or even overwrite one using the same name.

A few areas are still a bit tricky when it comes to doing a copy of a Preset or saving a copy which has been modified, There will likely be more updates down the road after it is released.






Charles
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 02:54 PM
Southern Pride
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Quote:
2) Charge termination on unbalanced packs
Custom Preset should handle this fine. I set up a couple of Preset Slow Balance and named them Accurate charge. Trickle Balance could be turned on but as is cells are at 4.19? even when charged at 3C if they are decent cells. IMO trying to force bad cells to mostly full is a waste of time and energy..

Quote:
3) Set separate current reduction values for “alarm” and “charge termination”
Perhaps an audiable alaarm at start of CV stage would work as a compromise but as the cell voltages are displayed real time along with a CV Stage indicator as well as the chager rate it seems simple enough to just look at the charger's display.

Quote:
4) NiXX forming charge

Snip

Quote:
So my suggestion would be this simple method, which should work with any pack:
a) set charge current
b) press start
Then, the chargers charges for 14h with the set current, and then terminates the charge. This way is more equal to the traditional forming charge people know.
That would work but cells really should be discharged first . The 4010DUO has a Reflex charge mode for Ni and Pb. Junsi says the batteries stay cooler.

I prefer using a simple CC ( wall wart) charger or a 1/2C rate Peak detection with a Trickle follow up.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 06:50 PM
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All sounds pretty good news. Thanks for being a pioneer Charles.
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 03:31 AM
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Charles

Is it possible to use the 4010 charger as a variable CCCV power supply
from a fixed PS (could be IN : 24V or 48V xx amps)

Louis
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 05:28 AM
Southern Pride
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I would not think so however that would best be asked / answered by Junsi. I seem to remember same being asked of other iChargers and the answer being no.
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
That would work but cells really should be discharged first .
Well, I advise agains discharging before balancing. Discharging an unbalanced pack could deep-discharge single cells.

An overcharge at 1/10C, however, is harmless. Therfor I always do a forming charge before discharging.
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Old Nov 09, 2012, 12:15 PM
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Julez you have a valid point and I keep forgetting just how little some know about managing Ni batteries. I will say that I have never had an issue with doing a discharge first however I first check to determine that average cell voltage is above 1V and I also monitor the discharge to insure that the voltage drop is linear. If the discharge looks abnormal I stop the discharge and start a lower rate discharge and check each cells voltage.


MY SOP for forming Nicells is to do each cell sperately one at a time in a multi channel charger that:

Applies a 16 Hr. 0.1C charge ,rest for 1 Hr. ,does a 0.2C discharge,rest for 1 Hr. and then does another 16Hr. 0.1C charge.

Charles
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 01:08 AM
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Yes, single cell charging would of course be the best, but given the amount of people who even have issues figuring out things like the correct charge current, that could be a little much to ask.

I once made an array to discharge single cells before charging, and it was highly successful.

But the average Joe will have no understanding for doing complicated stuff like this.

So, the most simple and easy way for a fool-proof forming charge would be the one I described earlier.
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