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Old Feb 08, 2013, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
...
i started by using a scope just that way but found that even though mine was a dso (tek tds220) in some cases it did not show the missing packets reliably. the trace looked ok but when i used an led it showed many missed channels. very consistant and always same channels so i suspected bad protocol rather than noise or timing. anyway i like using an led because they are smaller and cheaper than a scope and all my rx have one now. im trying to decide whether to turn on for good packets to show link or lost packets to show errors. unfortunately the eye does not detect short dark periods as well as short light periods....
"Damn the expense" (as my grandfather used to say only in cases where things were exceedingly cheap) Dave, how about two LED's or a bicolour red/green one. Flash green for good, red for errors. .

I'm hoping that coming out of all this effort will be a 9x/core9x solution to the WLT (et.al.) "right button" problem.

cheers,
Andrew
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 02:18 PM
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New York
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Originally Posted by jakestew View Post
Copper conducts heat much better and tins better. FYI, that's the main job of a soldering iron tip. There's plenty of other advantages to them also. Being too lazy to use a better tip, too lazy to shape your tip with a couple swipes of a file, and too lazy to save money for your operation... just isn't a good excuse for many people.
fyi except for the 1 or 2 mil iron CLADDING those tips are pure copper. so while its true copper condicts better that is irrelevant here. as far a tinning its virtually impossible to tin a copper tip that been sitting for more than a minute. grab that file. unlike iron, copper promotes oxidation. and you do know copper is 2000x more soluble in tin, right?

i will fully accept the "lazy" label. apparently like midelic, its one attribute im proud of. like they say "if you want a job done efficiently... hire a lazy man".

in any case you are a smart guy and i like you. so maybe get off your butt one of these days and actually take action on one of those brilliant ideas you always to dream up.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Banjo5 View Post
Dave, how about two LED's or a bicolour red/green one. Flash green for good, red for errors. .
you laugh but thats exactly how the rfm22b/oslrs dudes do it. amazing how much info you can supply with 2 colors and variable rate. technically you can transfer almost as much info as an lcd display or pc monitor (morse code etc).

i do have a bi-led made from couple 0406 and 1k now between pc3-pc4 on my mega8 version wired same as the oslrs. you can barely make it out in the a7105 prototype photo because its tucked behind a hole drilled between header strip and ic socket. its REALLY visible from literally all angles when lit. imo essential for serious debugging whether you have a scope or not.

however with avr tiny chips used for my production models pins are at a premium so im working on that now. a led in parallel with servo channel wont interfere and there might be an optional mode to use that in place of ch7 or ch8. those are the kind of issues im working out now in my head prior to actually firing up the software tools again.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
maybe get off your butt one of these days and actually take action on one of those brilliant ideas you always to dream up.
Hey, I'm following this thread aren't I? My problem is too many projects at the moment. My CDI project is going all right, just didn't realize how much engine and electronics work would be involved.

Points taken about the copper tips, I just get a bit riled when you present that as evidence of my ignorance. Copper works great, and I like using it. I do usually use standard iron plated tips for most detail work.

Back on topic, if you use a RGB LED you can get quite a few colors out of it. Lot's of color info + flashing might make for a pretty good system. 3 pins is probably a lot to spare though. I'm curious how many colors you can realistically get out of a 2 color LED?
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Last edited by jakestew; Feb 08, 2013 at 02:49 PM.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
you laugh but thats exactly how the rfm22b/oslrs dudes do it. amazing how much info you can supply with 2 colors and variable rate. technically you can transfer almost as much info as an lcd display or pc monitor (morse code etc).

i do have a bi-led made from couple 0406 and 1k now between pc3-pc4 on my mega8 version wired same as the oslrs. you can barely make it out in the a7105 prototype photo because its tucked behind a hole drilled between header strip and ic socket. its REALLY visible from literally all angles when lit. imo essential for serious debugging whether you have a scope or not.

however with avr tiny chips used for my production models pins are at a premium so im working on that now. a led in parallel with servo channel wont interfere and there might be an optional mode to use that in place of ch7 or ch8. those are the kind of issues im working out now in my head prior to actually firing up the software tools again.
Will have to look up "rfm22b/oslrs" later. Good point, LED's are cheap, but pins to drive them ... not so much . That's what makes engineering so much fun .

cheers,
Andrew
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jakestew View Post
Hey, I'm following this thread aren't I? My problem is too many projects at the moment. My CDI project is going all right, just didn't realize how much engine and electronics work would be involved.
oh yeah... i forgot about the cdi. i take back what i said about implying you are a no good windbag ne'er-do-well with no technical background or experience in any area. i must admit you have actually poked at an infernal combustion engine. lol! (seriously. i did forget about that thread and apologize for the wisecrack).

btw i would still like to see you (or ANYBODY) show orginal avr c blink that is less than 10x bigger than an asm version. guarrantee the source and bin will be 10x bigger.

and still waiting for midelic to show his asm version.

(chirp.............. chirp...............chirp.................ribit... .........chirp............)
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jakestew View Post
I'm curious how many colors you can realistically get out of a 2 color LED?
that would depend on resolution of the mcu pwm channel. for avr its typically 16bit so 65536*65536 would be 4.3 billion colors. the real question is how many colors can a human eye detect? lets call in the japanese egg shell guy.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 06:22 PM
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France, Alsace, Strasbourg
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Originally Posted by dave1993 View Post
im surprised to hear thierry cooked his pic with 10k resistor
You are right, I thought it was a latch-up trouble, but in fact it is much more simple than that:
the 3v regulator is a mcp1700 and max input voltage is 6.5v... When I designed the RX I didn't tought about converting it into a TX and connecting it to a fully charged optic6 battery trought module connector = 11.4 V !!!!
regulator fries, pic and a7105 get 11V, => A7105 fries also, but pic is still alive (I thought it was dead also but just test it ok). As you said, these microcontrollers are quite robust (avr or pic)
btw I have destroyed a second RX before understanding that...
I'll replace mcp1700 regulator by mcp1703 (same but 12.5V max input voltage).

About sequence hopping, I understood (from zeza and pb work) that if your TX ID0 is above or equal to 16 ( >x0F) then your have to substract a constant value to all channel numbers of the sequence. So ID0 low nibble gives you the sequence (among 16) but ID0 high nibble gives you a constant "shift" for all frequencies of the sequence...
as example if you look at phracturedblue table in is post #43:
TX ID0 = 0x00, sequence = 0x0a 0x5a 0x14 ...
TX ID0 = 0x10, sequence = 0x09 0x59 0x13 ...
so:
TX ID0 0x10 sequence = TX ID0 0x00 sequence - 1
You have to substract ID0 high nibble value to the sequence

btw, you'll find TX pic code (file TX_18F14K22.asm) at this adress: http://thierry.pebayle.free.fr/RX_A7...8F14K22_7&8CH/
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 06:42 PM
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aha! i thought pics were not so delicate. out of many projects i never saw them stop working no matter how much abused. like avr they do get warm if plugged in backwards or over volted and maybe not to be trusted fully but still appear to work. i did blow out several a7105 with only a little over volt. sometimes the top blew off. i wish they were as rugged or cost as little as the mcu.

your description of using id bit7-4 to calculate column value is exactly how i understood the protocol. only problem is most but not all of the radios agree with this.

btw i pm my info. let me know what you want to do.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 08:24 PM
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Thierry,
Thanks ......absolutely beautiful and easy reading and understanding.I almost finished translating in avr asm ,.....only the binding part and I want to try this one first.I debug it in avr studio till now is ok no major errors.I ordered already 2 pcs ATmega8. it will arrive nest week.If it's working ........I'll be very happy.There is plenty time, this thread has only 12 pages ,,,,it deserves many more.
Dave,
Regarding blinking LED if you accept the code without the delay routine, only the "call" for that(You now that I'm to lazy to calculate the time delay,some random time, load in one register 0xff or other counter ,10 NOP, dec. counter and loop it)I can PM it to you to avoid .....clobbering and off topics here.I'm now busier with Thierry code.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 09:02 PM
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please feel free to post in my flysky rx thread. pm overflow is a big problem for me and i prefer only use for personal information. you say you dont even have chips yet? the same code works on mega64/128 too. or any other avr. rate is not important. its only necessary for the led to blink. but i would like to see a complete working program, not fragments or hidden routines or libraries. and some hex to try. i want to see how far youve come since that recent example which was really not even avr like you said. what about saying hello or at least printing a hex number? did you do that yet? even just copying thierrys code to mega8 i dont see how you can get a7105 working w/o both. its a big step from reading spec sheet to getting these chips working.

and id REALLY like to see jakes c version to show he really does know how to program avr in that language and to show him what a huge advantage asm has.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 09:20 PM
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Ok.I'll post there but no clobbering, only positive advice for improvement, no negative vibes.
Agreed?
What you mean by complete and no hidden libraries?....I hope I can use for example:
.INCLUDE "m8def.INC"
About avr asm indeed is simpler and straitforward.But PIC asm is more elegant .....is more french style.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by midelic View Post
Ok.I'll post there but no clobbering, only positive advice for improvement, no negative vibes.
Agreed?
ohhhh.... ok. just this once.

btw that include is ok because theres NO code in it hidden or otherwise. but i will say atmel assembler dont really need it for such a dumb demo
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 01:38 PM
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and id REALLY like to see jakes c version to show he really does know how to program avr in that language and to show him what a huge advantage asm has.
Not sure what you're asking here... You can blink a LED in three lines in C.

Asm just isn't a programming language. Directly manipulating the hardware via the processor instruction set in asm is completely different from a structured language like C. It's the difference between doing something yourself vs. telling someone to do it.

There's certainly sometimes an advantage to directly manipulating the hardware with asm vs. telling it what to do with a programming language. But for the most part asm is just foolish pride. Writing in asm is saying that you know how to manipulate the hardware better than the c compiler writers.

When I write a "for" loop I don't sit and think "maybe I can implement a better for loop in asm than some expert compiler programmer could." Microchip makes the chips and the compiler, so how can I hope to manipulate their hardware better than they know how to?

Here's a PIC blinky program for you in C...
Quote:
PORTA = 0b000001; // Turn on LED
__delay_ms(500); // Wait 1/2 sec.
PORTA = 0b000000; // Turn off LED
Three lines, beat that. Where do you think you can write that better in asm? I just don't see how I can write to the GPIO port or calculate the delay in NOPs any better than the chip manufacturer's compiler writers could. I'm happy to compile that and see if you can beat it.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 12:12 PM
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Thierry,
Why do you use 2 sets of data and different registers ,.....input pulse values and output pulse values for the same ppm input data values?
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