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Old Oct 13, 2012, 06:41 PM
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Hi, sinowace.

Any glider with a high aspect ratio (long, skinny, wing) will drop a wing in the stall. The FMS ASW 28 sounds like it's better than most scale gliders but will probably be prone to dropping a wing at least as much as a Cularis. I haven't actually flown a FMS yet but my ST 2 meter ASW 28 has a violent tip stall. On the other hand, it's so light that it recovers automatically and almost instantly.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 05:42 AM
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Thanks Peter, I really appreciate your comment.
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Does anyone know what the aspect ratio is or what the wing area is of this plane?
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Old Oct 14, 2012, 07:22 PM
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Hi again, sinowace.

Someone posted the numbers a few pages back but I don't recall them. The wing loading and aspect ratio are not a big problem within the limitations of any scale plane. Any glider with a relatively high aspect ratio requires a slightly different approach to get the best performance. What I do is keep it trimmed a little bit nose down and just keep a bit more speed than a real floater. Then I just pull a little back stick when I'm actually in lift. Actually, I do this with most any glider but it's a bit more pronounced with one that likes to fly a little faster. It takes a little trial and error but I think you will be surprised that the sink rate, with any combination of airfoil and configuration, actually goes down with the nose lower.

If you have a radio capable of mixing in spoilerons (i.e. both ailerons up.) will also serve to steepen landing approaches without getting too fast and, since spoilerons are equivalent to washout, they also reduce the tendency to tip stall during the critical landing approach. This can be practiced with any glider.

Cheers!
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Old Oct 15, 2012, 06:14 AM
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Thanks again Peter. You are wealth of information!
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 07:05 PM
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United States, NC, Richlands
Joined Jun 2011
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Hi Thompson,
I've booked & been working my way thru ur 'glassing' process.
Maybe sound like a dumb question but, do you perchance know the approx. thread-count of the sheet fabric you used? In lieu, an estimation? Or would any cheap hence thin fabric work? I've looked at some in a linen shop & maybe it's winter stock but they were looking pretty heavy. Have meant 3 times now to check Wally World & keeps slipping my feeble mind!

BTW - on that fancy upholstery job you did on the pilot's seat?
I'm thinkin'.... (You ready for this??) ......leopardskin!
*LMBO*
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarHopper44 View Post
Hi Thompson,
I've booked & been working my way thru ur 'glassing' process.
Maybe sound like a dumb question but, do you perchance know the approx. thread-count of the sheet fabric you used? In lieu, an estimation? Or would any cheap hence thin fabric work? I've looked at some in a linen shop & maybe it's winter stock but they were looking pretty heavy. Have meant 3 times now to check Wally World & keeps slipping my feeble mind!

BTW - on that fancy upholstery job you did on the pilot's seat?
I'm thinkin'.... (You ready for this??) ......leopardskin!
*LMBO*
The fabric used, I'm going to guess, is around 300 thread count. A summer weight sheet fur sur, possibly part linen. It was old, had been relegated for garage use and basically was already cut up in smaller pieces. Thinner, flexible and tight weave thread count would be best. It does soak up the CA well, and this is what I've used. I was able to cover three 2m sailplanes with one sheet.

The beauty of using the linen bed sheet (compared to fiberglass cloth) is it stays together well, can be taken back off for repositioning (multiple times) after using 3M Super77 spray adhesive, and can be pulled and stretched over curves after securing one edge with CA. It also soaks up the CA which also bonds to the foam at the same time. The thickness when this all happens give you a bumpy surface after initial application. This is ok, as you will sand this down smooth.

Haaa, you noticed the ASW-28 seat fabric!! that's the real deal. Found a photo of a real ASW-28 interior and created the seat fabric swatch.

Hope this helps, Cheers Thompson



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Old Oct 16, 2012, 09:30 PM
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USA, FL, Boca Raton
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Hey Thompson did you ever figure out the dihedral degrees? Can you make an outline of your dihedral brace and post it..
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 10:05 PM
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Hi, bushpilotx1.

You can read more about our adventures with the ST ASW 28 here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1725885

I used 3/16" steel rod, 8" long, for my dihedral brace. I used Skyloft fabric and epoxy mixed with talcum powder to glue the whole mess together with a dihedral angle of 6 degrees. That's 3 degrees up on each side. Feel free to ask any other ST Model's specific questions on that thread or even PM me.

Cheers!
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushpilotx1 View Post
Hey Thompson did you ever figure out the dihedral degrees? Can you make an outline of your dihedral brace and post it..
Oops, sorry. Yes I was supposed to upload this. I just measured and took a photo with my iPhone and protractor underneath, will upload tomorrow morning into the ST Model ASW-28 thread.

Peter nailed it, we are sitting at 3-4 deg per side, so a total of 6-8 deg dihedral will work great. My wing spar joiner measures at 8 deg.

Back to the FMS ASW-28. Honestly I was thinking about purchasing one of these.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 10:40 PM
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HI, RS.

I still might get an FMS too but...? I've decided that the glass/wood 2.62 meter DG1000 from HK is going to be my scale baby. I'm going with the standard version because it has flaps and I will have to figure out how I want to mount the motor. Even if it can't soar as well as a light foamy I'm hopeful that the more rigid structure will make a better aerobatic and heavy wind machine. I figure that, by the time one makes the foam airframe as rigid, one will be at about the same wing loading.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 10:54 PM
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Hi,
I wanted to comment on Banana Hobby's service. I ordered the FMS ASW on Sept 26 and received a package 6 days later. The outside box said ASW 28 but when I opened it up it was the ASK 23. THe ASK 23 is 8 oz heavier and does not have the looks or flight characteristics of the ASW so I wanted to return it. I contacted the sales people at BH and they told me to take some pictures and to send it to them to get a return authorization. I did so and got the RMA and sent it back.They paid for the UPS pick up and it made it back to BH in 3 days. Today I got notice that the ASW28 was shipped and should get it on Thursday (two days later). So is this good or bad service? If I finally get the ASW I guess not too bad. I'll keep you posted.
Ray
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:46 AM
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@kostuk - Sounds pretty much like you got the standard drill; & in this incidence things worked like they're supposed to. Of course one would wish the error hadn't occurred in the first place, but compared to some of the horror stories comin' out of the Banana Kingdom, you might consider yourself lucky. There's reportedly been much improvement, but still.....

Good luck with getting the right one (literally) -- last time I had this happen the replacement they sent was the exact same wrong plane! I got pretty sick of all the hoop-jumping & waiting, believe me!

Comparatively, can't call it 'cuz your avatar doesn't show location. But I'd guess Atlantic side 'cuz I was also cited (UPS tracking) 6 days delivery including a weekend on my '28.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterlngh View Post
HI, RS.

I still might get an FMS too but...? I've decided that the glass/wood 2.62 meter DG1000 from HK is going to be my scale baby. I'm going with the standard version because it has flaps and I will have to figure out how I want to mount the motor. Even if it can't soar as well as a light foamy I'm hopeful that the more rigid structure will make a better aerobatic and heavy wind machine. I figure that, by the time one makes the foam airframe as rigid, one will be at about the same wing loading.
Peter, yes the HK DG-1000 are nice scale sailplanes with the detailed cockpit and two ultra scale pilots. They are also heavy and require really flying on the wing, speeds will have to increase to stay aloft. The construction is not like a European designed built unit, but work. Do some research, look at videos of equal quality CMP, or FlyFly DG-1000 sailplanes. I've read and seen videos that the wing spars and wing building is not to the highest specs. For the price, you'll get a nice unit.

Last year I purchased a Discus from Nitroplanes on sale for $80 and never got around to putting it together, and just flew my foam 2 meters instead; Radian, ASW-28 and DG-1000. Best decision I could have done, really learned a lot about thermals, I ended up selling the Discus. It was ok construction, a plastic type of fuselage, not fiberglass.

Just an FYI... I purchased two Top-Modell.cz sailplanes that were new old stock from what was North East Sailplanes, got these through our Vermont club at half price or less. The quality is beyond words, totally amazing. Completly blows away the CMP Discus on construction. One, the Parada, is similar to the Radian as far as wing loading, R/E only and has polyhedral wings. Except, it has a fiberglass fuselage, built up wings and looks like it will penetrate head winds like no tomorrow. Of course it isn't 30oz AUW, but I'm sure will glide just as nicely and have more inertia.

Improving a foam scale sailplane with my glassing mods increases the weight, but only by 100g, they still float well and indicate lift great. What they lack is inertia to continue a glide path like the real deal, this is due to being too light.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 09:13 PM
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United States, CT, Waterford
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I broke down and ordered one, on-sale, a couple or days ago. Looks like all you guys were having such fun!
From everything here, it apears that the FMS version has many of the enhancements that I would of been doing anyway to the ST or HK versions. Looking forward now to flying it and comparing it to my scale ST DG-1000 and Cermark Eagle-1.
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