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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:07 PM
Old Flying Bastard
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France, IdF, Paris
Joined Jun 2011
333 Posts
Received an interesting pm from Jihlein.

Proposed to equilibrate the nick at the cog. Actually front motors push stronger than rear ones on nick, this make it nick outside the cog of the frame. Dunno really what are the consequencies in flight, worst to test too.

So i've done it for Roll too ( let' stay logic on all axis then ). But yaw effect on roll is so light and because we're usually going forward or backward while Rolling, we don't notice it.

Something that could cause problem :
To use the 4 motors for the Roll & the nick , you have to limit front motors thrust on those action to 64%.
It will probably flight a lot smoother, but you loose some power on the other side.

For the Yaw we don't loose anything.

But for shooting video traveling, it can be a problem gaining some yaw while just wanting to get a straight right movement.

Here is a pack with 4 config to test.
It's a dev version, pid have probably changed since 2.0

http://xmltv.free.fr/multiwii/multiw...vtail_test.zip

Don't forget to change your motor rotation way as explained above.
And don't set up Yaw_direction = -1 like before.

I've included the picture in the zip.

What have changed here:

On config.h:

Code:
//#define VTAIL4_OLD //yaw only with rear motors, nick booth at 100% ( doesn't nick at the center of gravity ) , roll only with front motors
//#define VTAIL4_YAW //yaw use all motors with compensated values, nick booth at 100%, roll only with front motors
//#define VTAIL4_YAW_ROLL //yaw use all motors with compensated values, nick boot at 100%, roll use all motors with compensated values
//#define VTAIL4_YAW_ROLL_NICK //yaw use all motors with compensated values, nick compensated to the cog, roll use all motors with compensated values
Let's try those and tells me how it feel. Perhaps I will receive my new mwc board tomorrow if lucky.

On Output.pde:


Code:
   #ifdef VTAIL4_OLD
   motor[0] = PIDMIX(+0,+1, +1); //REAR_R
   motor[1] = PIDMIX(-1, -1, +0); //FRONT_R
   motor[2] = PIDMIX(+0,+1, -1); //REAR_L
   motor[3] = PIDMIX(+1, -1, -0); //FRONT_L
   #endif


   #ifdef VTAIL4_YAW
   motor[0] = PIDMIX(+0,+1, +1); //REAR_R
   motor[1] = PIDMIX(-1, -1, -0.64); //FRONT_R
   motor[2] = PIDMIX(+0,+1, -1); //REAR_L
   motor[3] = PIDMIX(+1, -1, +0.64); //FRONT_L
   #endif

   #ifdef VTAIL4_YAW_ROLL
   motor[0] = PIDMIX(-1,+1, +1); //REAR_R
   motor[1] = PIDMIX(-0.64, -1, -0.64); //FRONT_R
   motor[2] = PIDMIX(+1,+1, -1); //REAR_L
   motor[3] = PIDMIX(+0.64, -1, +0.64); //FRONT_L
   #endif
   
      #ifdef VTAIL4_YAW_ROLL_NICK
   motor[0] = PIDMIX(-1,+1, +1); //REAR_R
   motor[1] = PIDMIX(-0.64, -0.64, -0.64); //FRONT_R
   motor[2] = PIDMIX(+1,+1, -1); //REAR_L
   motor[3] = PIDMIX(+0.64, -0.64, +0.64); //FRONT_L
   #endif
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:23 PM
kad
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United States, NY, Poughkeepsie
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Dialfonzo,
Couple of quick questions. Are the thicker arms discussed in earlier threads stock on the 500 frame now? And, where is the camera mount available? I don't see it on the US seller's site.

-K
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:32 PM
DiaLFonZo - UAV/Drone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kad View Post
Dialfonzo,
Couple of quick questions. Are the thicker arms discussed in earlier threads stock on the 500 frame now? And, where is the camera mount available? I don't see it on the US seller's site.

-K
No that arm is not stock on the kit
There are a couple of camera mount that have been done, what are you looking for ?
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:39 PM
kad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialfonzo View Post
No that arm is not stock on the kit
There are a couple of camera mount that have been done, what are you looking for ?
Not sure, don't have the frame or a camera yet. I thought I had seen a generic one in a post, that's why I asked. I also remembered what else I wanted to ask. I recall from one of the posts about the arms someone (possibly you?) saying that the Red G10 was thinner or, at least, more flexible than the black. Is this also true of the Blue and Yellow G10?

-K
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:50 PM
DiaLFonZo - UAV/Drone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kad View Post
Not sure, don't have the frame or a camera yet. I thought I had seen a generic one in a post, that's why I asked. I also remembered what else I wanted to ask. I recall from one of the posts about the arms someone (possibly you?) saying that the Red G10 was thinner or, at least, more flexible than the black. Is this also true of the Blue and Yellow G10?

-K
Yes but from the test Luis did it don't make much of a difference.
Many people fly it as is without any issues.

For the camera, a simple plate is real easy to make.
If it's what you need it can be done real quick.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:55 PM
Old Flying Bastard
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France, IdF, Paris
Joined Jun 2011
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In fact we've found why other people didn't had the torsion problem ,it's because I fly with 4S lipo, it was only tested with 3S. My motors react quicker and gives more torque on the arm. 10x5 , 750kv.

You should definitively propose it with strong plate too.

Now I have reinforced front and rear, all motor oscillations disappeared and my Vtail with wmk flies near to perfection

I need a plate for my Gopro too!!!
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 12:57 PM
DiaLFonZo - UAV/Drone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipkool View Post
In fact we've found why other people didn't had the torsion problem ,it's because I fly with 4S lipo, it was only tested with 3S. My motors react quicker and gives more torque on the arm. 10x5 , 750kv.

Now I have reinforced front and rear, all motor oscillations disappeared.

My Vtail with wmk flies near to perfection now
Your tail did have something wrong ...
We did tests and never have as much twist that you have on your video.

I have at least one other people on 4s also and don't have that problem too.

I just don't understant how you get that much twist...
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:06 PM
DiaLFonZo - UAV/Drone
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Do you guys need fixed GoPro plate ?

also.. just some playing.. lol
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:17 PM
TECH for XaircraftAmerica!
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Ok now that is cool. would be interesting with EDF motors.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:20 PM
DiaLFonZo - UAV/Drone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3wins View Post
Ok now that is cool. would be interesting with EDF motors.
Yes i was thinking of that since i made the Hunter...
Would need to know which size to get.. any background with them ?
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:23 PM
DiaLFonZo - UAV/Drone
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I think that was on the 500.. would be better on the 400 i think.
Or i could do a complete new frame.. ? For EDF...
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:35 PM
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Normally, when flying EDF at jet speeds, you burn through a battery pack a lot faster than a prop equivalent. Wonder if the same would hold true on a multirotor, can't imaging the size battery you would need to feed 4 65-70 mm EDF's?
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:37 PM
DiaLFonZo - UAV/Drone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cquian View Post
Normally, when flying EDF at jet speeds, you burn through a battery pack a lot faster than a prop equivalent. Wonder if the same would hold true on a multirotor, can't imaging the size battery you would need to feed 4 65-70 mm EDF's?
I have see other multirotor project with EDF
The thing is that we now can use NanoTech with high C rated value.

It would sure not be a 15min flight.. lol

That's why i say maybe another frame.. more lightweight..
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:42 PM
TECH for XaircraftAmerica!
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I have flown alot of edf jets. and yea not much flight time. usually around 5-7 minutes for the smaller jets. but 4 edfs with a high c battery , maybe could be the same. as you will not be going full throttle. new frame maybe. but would probably stick with 64mm edf's if you go bigger then you need more battery. smaller and then you would need smaller frame.
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Old Jun 22, 2012, 01:47 PM
DiaLFonZo - UAV/Drone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3wins View Post
I have flown alot of edf jets. and yea not much flight time. usually around 5-7 minutes for the smaller jets. but 4 edfs with a high c battery , maybe could be the same. as you will not be going full throttle. new frame maybe. but would probably stick with 64mm edf's if you go bigger then you need more battery. smaller and then you would need smaller frame.
Was looking for something like that

Hobbyking 50mm Alloy EDF V2 4200kv (4s Version)

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