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Old Mar 21, 2012, 08:01 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
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What's up with all the Launch Height Limiting threads?

I'm baffled by this sudden desire to bring competition down to the lowest common denominator. Is that really what people want? We spend all this time and money designing planes that will launch higher. We spend a bunch of time talking about launching technique. We video ourselves. We exercise so that we get stronger. And then suddenly some people want to put a limit on it. That's nuts!

Competition is competition. There will always be people better than you. If you're in this game for the hardware then you need to do what it takes to get to the top. I'm in it for the fun and self improvement. I always want there to be someone better than me that I can look up to and learn from. I never want that guy limited down to my level. Once you do that, there is nothing left for me to learn and there is not enough challenge left in the sport to keep my interest.
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 08:42 AM
American Exile
Germany, BB, Nauen
Joined Jan 2009
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Pretty much my thoughts too. Woke up this morning and thought to myself 'Wow, there's another thread about limiting pilots.' The second thought was 'Wow, what this needs is some satire, and monkeys!'
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 08:49 AM
Time for me to Fly...
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United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
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I agree. Monkeys make everything better.... or not.
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 09:01 AM
Now fortified with carbon
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Canada, ON, Puslinch
Joined Apr 2010
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I have often thought that DLG needs a sportmans class or possibly a two ch class.

I can understand guys that are old time thermal pilots [btw ,many new DLG pilots already fly rc gliders] being hesitate to want to compete but what to be part of the action.
In a way a sportmans class on two ch`s would be limited in launch height. Poly wings have their own limits.
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 09:12 AM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
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USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
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The purple ink crowd is trying to take over our hobbies now Mike. They've already ruined the government and are well on their way to ruining the education system, so I guess they're setting the sights lower.

Seriously though... there's a misconception that has always and will always be in our COMPETITIONS that there's some sort of inherent inequality due to launch height, or $$$ spent on models, or athletic ability etc. Competitions are all about inequality. If everything was equal, competition is boring. Just ask the guys who spent millions trying to launch IROC racing in the 80s and other one-design or equality events.

Limited launch height competition is the "tee ball" of RC soaring. It's an excuse for those who can't launch high to believe that they can win with their "superior thermal ability" which usually doesn't exist. Tee ball removes one element of the game of baseball (pitching) from the equation and allows competition based just on fielding, hitting, and running the bases. Why isn't there a MLB game where they use a Tee? Why don't they remove the base running too since some may be faster than others?

What would a football game look like if everyone ran at the same speed and nobody was allowed to be faster? Would the Patriots still cheat? How would you cheat in that game?

It's simply an attempt by those lacking in a particular ability or skill to remove that ability or skill from the competition in order to have a better chance to win. Don't sweat it. It will blow over *again* like it always has in the past.

I have thrown poly Supergees to over 150 feet. Bruce used to DOMINATE the DLG scene with that damn pink poly XP3.

<heading to the basement to find my flame suit>
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 09:30 AM
Build, fly, crash. Repeat.
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Switzerland, Canton of Neuchâtel, Neuchâtel
Joined Feb 2007
640 Posts
No I agree - it's pointless to limit launch height. If people want a "fair" chance of winning, they should establish separate classes. I mean there are some people who are older who want in on the DLG fun, but their age limits their throwing ability because of bad back, arthritis or whatever. Just make them a senior class where only people with an established disability or over a certain age limit can participate. Gives them a group where they can go play in the sun without ruining our fun.

I mean DLG isn't just a hobby or "thermal ability", it's a bloody sport, and I want it to stay that way!
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 09:50 AM
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United States, NY, Lewiston
Joined Apr 2011
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I have long thought that hand-launch and DLG pilots who can't throw should have a STANDARDIZED upstart-style launching system established, and contests which allow hand- throwing OR upstart launching as options might be a lot of fun....It may also serve to demonstrate whether the less-athletic pilots really are right about their superior thermaling skills.
One thing for sure....I love being able to compete, (at almost anything)and when I am too old or broken-down to do it, I am going to feel very sad if I am excluded from a hobby/sport by the boorish, dominating behavior of the youngbloods. Keep in mind that this HOBBY is and has been the life joy of many of your fellow fliers for decades and that someday you, too, will be getting beat because you've lived longer than the victors. Do what you love the way you want to, but please do everything you can to accommodate everybody who loves this hobby AND sustained it long before you arrived.
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 09:55 AM
Build, fly, crash. Repeat.
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Switzerland, Canton of Neuchâtel, Neuchâtel
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ghosttanker, when I'm old and breaking down - then I'll be in the senior class with others of my generation.

A mechanical thrower would be a nice touch, but current rules allow for people being to disabled to throw and having a helper put their plane in the air. Perhaps a bit of tweaking of that particular rule would remove the need for an upper bound on launch altitude. I'm allowing for the fact there's some place to fix things, but I very much doubt that the majority of the elder DLGers that I flew with feel that they need 150+ ft of launch height to be competitive.
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 10:12 AM
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The only time I saw a "Sportsmand" class work, was in the days before F3K became real. We flew at the SAGE field, and a Sportsman competitor was one who flew a 40" span glider. I recall that maybe 3 or 4 signed up as Sportsmen, flying Gamblers and DL-50s. We had maybe 10-12 competitors, and thought that was a big deal.

Just so you know: that day, a Sportsman competitor was 2nd overall.

Yours, Greg
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 10:13 AM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
tom43004's Avatar
USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
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Jon and ghosttanker...

I'm rapidly becoming one of the "old" guys. I still launch pretty high and still have pretty decent eyesight, and can run when I need to but I definitely see my style changing so I can remain competitive.

My point above is that we're talking about competition. Sportsman class has been introduced to allow newer fliers or those who are getting their sea legs under them still to participate in competition against those who don't consider themselves "expert" fliers. Maybe we let the seniors slide back and compete there if they wish.

I fun fly alot of disciplines, and I fun fly DLGs. There are scores of people who fun fly but don't compete. Please don't change the competition rules to accomodate fun fliers. There's room for them in the sportsman class if they want to come to a contest. We need to have a competitive class as well to push design and technique forward. My experience tells me that there may be a "launch limited" competition spring up here and there but it won't last long for reasons I stated earlier.

NO RULE TWEAKS unless it involves elimination of Poker. That's a stupid task.
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 10:17 AM
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Joined Nov 2004
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Maybe you should use launch height as a measure to decide who should be in sportsman class. It might be the person’s body, his inexperience, or his cheapo sailplane that is keeping him from launching high. In any case, if he cannot launch above the threshold, he would be in sportsman class.
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 10:31 AM
Mike M.
like.2.fly's Avatar
United States, UT, Eden
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theghosttanker View Post
I have long thought that hand-launch and DLG pilots who can't throw should have a STANDARDIZED upstart-style launching system established, and contests which allow hand- throwing OR upstart launching as options might be a lot of fun....It may also serve to demonstrate whether the less-athletic pilots really are right about their superior thermaling skills.
One thing for sure....I love being able to compete, (at almost anything)and when I am too old or broken-down to do it, I am going to feel very sad if I am excluded from a hobby/sport by the boorish, dominating behavior of the youngbloods. Keep in mind that this HOBBY is and has been the life joy of many of your fellow fliers for decades and that someday you, too, will be getting beat because you've lived longer than the victors. Do what you love the way you want to, but please do everything you can to accommodate everybody who loves this hobby AND sustained it long before you arrived.
I apologize in advance for saying this, and nothing personal to theghosttanker; but that has to be one of the most ridiculous, self-centered, and arrogant statements I've ever seen on this forum . There are plenty of other RC soaring disciplines that offer assisted launching systems for those that need or desire it. F3K is HAND LAUNCH, and physical launching skills are a major part of the competition. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? If you can't hand launch well, but still think you have superior thermaling skills (and desire to prove it), then please go compete in one of the many other classes of soaring. Let the hand launchers do their thing in peace. No need to mess with the rules to make it better for one group while ruining it for others. Don't mess with what makes DLG so great.

Yours truly,

A 51 year old boorish dominating youngblood wannabe
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 10:35 AM
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What I wouldn't give to be a 51-year-old boorish dominating youngblood - again!

Yours, Greg
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 11:18 AM
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United States, MS, Glen
Joined Dec 2005
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They have done it to everyother sport , drag racingg was fun before the came up with running et. class. ( that is where a 427 mustang is equal to a 2cyl. yugo. ) I am old and slow but I am not trying to mess up things for the ones that have youth and talent on their side . Enjoy the sport and let it grow without being brought down with restrictions.
oldrifter
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Old Mar 21, 2012, 11:20 AM
Russ Young
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United States, UT, South Jordan
Joined Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.2.fly View Post
a 51 year old boorish dominating youngblood wannabe :d
+13
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