SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:10 PM
Registered User
j35u5fr34k's Avatar
United States, MI, East Tawas
Joined Aug 2011
120 Posts
I cut off the Walkera battery T plug on the ESC and soldered the ESC to the back of the RX.

Yes the batteries will charge just very slowly. I recommend upgrading the charger.
j35u5fr34k is offline Find More Posts by j35u5fr34k
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 16, 2012, 03:19 AM
Registered User
i812's Avatar
Joined Aug 2009
5,114 Posts
I don't have that ESC and don't know what kind of wiring it has; however, when given a choice it would be more electrically efficient for the LiPo to be wired/connected directly to the ESC, and then have the + and - power wires "daisy-chained" from the ESC to the RX.

The reason is because of a basic electric principle called Ohms law and wire resistance.

Ohms law describes the relationship between the resistance of a wire, the current through it, and Voltage drop across it as follows:

V (Voltage drop across) = I (Current) * R (Resistance)

The RX by itself probably consumes less than 1 Amp current, and the Motor by itself probably consumes about 10 Amp current, so given a certain resistance of wiring, the 10 Amp Motor current will cause more than 10 times more Voltage drop across the wiring then the RX will with 1 Amp current.

Total wire resistance depends on the conductive material's resistivity, length, and cross-sectional area as follows:

R (resistance) = p (resistivity) * l (length) / A (cross-sectional area)

The above resistance equation implies doubling the length of a wire will double the wire's resistance, and when Ohm's Law is considered, the doubling of the wire's length (i.e. doubling of wire's resistance) will result in doubling of the Voltage drop across the wire. Voltage drop across a wire equates to electrical energy lost as wasted heat.

When "daisy-chaining" electrical parts with wiring, the least amount of Voltage drop occurs when the electrical source (LiPo) is directly connected with the least amount of wiring to the most power consuming device (Motor = 10 Amp), and then the power wiring is "daisy-chained" to the next lower power consuming device (RX < 1 Amp). With the Motor wired first in the "daisy-chain" series, the Motor's current only needs to travel through about half of the total wire's length (i,e, about half of the total wire's resistance); whereas if the Motor was at the end of the "daisy-chain" series, the Motor's current would have to travel through the total wire's length (i.e. the total wire's resistance).

I haven't calculated or measured the Voltage (or power) drop differences between the two different "daisy-chain" choices, but suspect the difference is on the order of 0.1V (1 Watt @ 10 Amp) difference between Motor "daisy-chained" first verses RX "daisy-chained" first. Not much Voltage (power) difference, but why choose to waste 0.1 V (1 Watt) to heat the wiring going to the motor, when that same "free" power could be more efficiently delivered to the Motor for it to "burn" and provide several more seconds of flight time?
i812 is online now Find More Posts by i812
Last edited by i812; Dec 16, 2012 at 07:37 AM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2012, 08:48 AM
Registered User
Indonesia, Jakarta Capital Region, Jakarta
Joined Nov 2012
51 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JStack View Post
Hey guys,
I got a question for doing the brushless conversion on my miniCP. Looking at the Walkera speed controller from ChineseJade Item No: HM-4G3-Z-43. It says its for the tail motor does that matter? Looks like it doesn't but I just want to confirm. The other question I had is wiring. It looks like the ESC plugs into the motor spot on the RX and then the battery and brushless motor plug into the ESC. So how does the RX get power? Do we need a splitter to get power to both the RX and ESC? This wasn't included in parts we need but it seems off.
also, if I buy "non walkera" batteries will they charge with my cheap walkera charger that came with my heli?
Thanks!
yeah i got confused with this thing too..am i doing this right---> the white wire with pin ---> main motor plug? , the 3 pin hole ---> brushless motor? , the T plug ---> battery plug?, and where can i put the batteries to the plug?? can i have some picssssss
valestrife is offline Find More Posts by valestrife
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 01, 2013, 09:54 PM
RC Reviews & Tx Setup Guides
Tom Z's Avatar
United States
Joined Sep 2007
3,492 Posts
New firmware for the Mini CP

I just found out there is a new version of the firmware for the Mini CP.


Model No.:Mini CP

Mini CP programe document V1.3 version released

Latest Version: V1.3

Mini CP programe document V1.3 version released
Note:
1: Itís necessary to use the UP02 and UP02 adaptor for this upgrade steps.
2: This ugprade software optimized the programe,and Solve the self- set fixed ID
Tom Z is offline Find More Posts by Tom Z
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 04, 2013, 06:36 PM
Registered User
Schiksie's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Weurt
Joined Sep 2012
382 Posts
Today i received the brushless kit from WOW for my Mini CP and installed it.

Brushless upgrade kit Turbo Ace 411500 Brushless CO5 Motor with HM-4G3-Z-43 ESC
TTA-MT-ESC-411500+8T+connector+4G3-Z-43 ESC

I dont see its much of an improvement with the brushed motor ( Stock Mini motor or using the Genius motor ). The flight times are even simular or even lower as with these motors ( i used brand new 240 Mah en 350 Mah lipo's). Is there maybe something iam doing wrong here ? It will barely make 4 minutes off flight time ( just easy rounds/hover) while with the stock motor and with the Genius on a cold motor i can fly almost 5-6 minutes ? Also like with the stock motor and Genius motor on the second or third battery there is a very big power drop after 1,5-2 minutes. I thought this was due to heat off the motors and thought the brushless motor would fix this....but it doesnt.

Also this motor does not seem as powerfull as the standard Mini stock motor at all, i even would say its less than the Genius some how. Iam using the Genius maingear on it. The screws that came with it didnt fit the little holes on the motor and it seems there even uneven cause when i found a screw that fits the small mounting hole on one side it does not fit on the other side, so the other mounting hole is bigger ( iam talking about the 2 smallest holes more inside the middle ) With a bigger screw and a ring between it it does hold the motor in place cause the end i could get in.

It says on the website :

Walkera Mini CP brushless conversion kit.
Packaged with Genius main gear for the proper gearing of the brushless Mini CP conversion . You need to change the Mini CP main gear to the included Genius main gear and enlarge the plastic frame motor hole slightly for proper gear mesh. This brushless conversion lighten the Mini CP by about 2g and increase the the flight about one minute.

But i didnt need to make the holes bigger and the gearmesh seems fine ( tried different positions loose/thight ). Does anyone else have this kit and finds it disappointing ?
Schiksie is offline Find More Posts by Schiksie
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 04, 2013, 07:13 PM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2012
595 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schiksie View Post
Today i received the brushless kit from WOW for my Mini CP and installed it.

Brushless upgrade kit Turbo Ace 411500 Brushless CO5 Motor with HM-4G3-Z-43 ESC
TTA-MT-ESC-411500+8T+connector+4G3-Z-43 ESC

I dont see its much of an improvement with the brushed motor ( Stock Mini motor or using the Genius motor ). The flight times are even simular or even lower as with these motors ( i used brand new 240 Mah en 350 Mah lipo's). Is there maybe something iam doing wrong here ? It will barely make 4 minutes off flight time ( just easy rounds/hover) while with the stock motor and with the Genius on a cold motor i can fly almost 5-6 minutes ? Also like with the stock motor and Genius motor on the second or third battery there is a very big power drop after 1,5-2 minutes. I thought this was due to heat off the motors and thought the brushless motor would fix this....but it doesnt.

Also this motor does not seem as powerfull as the standard Mini stock motor at all, i even would say its less than the Genius some how. Iam using the Genius maingear on it. The screws that came with it didnt fit the little holes on the motor and it seems there even uneven cause when i found a screw that fits the small mounting hole on one side it does not fit on the other side, so the other mounting hole is bigger ( iam talking about the 2 smallest holes more inside the middle ) With a bigger screw and a ring between it it does hold the motor in place cause the end i could get in.

It says on the website :

Walkera Mini CP brushless conversion kit.
Packaged with Genius main gear for the proper gearing of the brushless Mini CP conversion . You need to change the Mini CP main gear to the included Genius main gear and enlarge the plastic frame motor hole slightly for proper gear mesh. This brushless conversion lighten the Mini CP by about 2g and increase the the flight about one minute.

But i didnt need to make the holes bigger and the gearmesh seems fine ( tried different positions loose/thight ). Does anyone else have this kit and finds it disappointing ?
There might be something wrong with your installation. I used the WOW kit with my stock Mini CP main gear and the difference is startling compared to the brushed motor. No bogging at all. Battery run times on mine very close to those of the brushed motor. Headspeed is faster. No modifications necessary to install the motor and set the mesh, though things are REALLY squeezed in there.

The one annoying deficiency it brings to the fore is the underpowered tail motor. I can blow the tail out at will during pitch pumps. This is with a new tail motor too. I have no interest in using the Genius main gear though - I need as much headspeed as I can get.
OrbitalGolem is online now Find More Posts by OrbitalGolem
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 04, 2013, 09:29 PM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2008
63 Posts
I just got the mini cp second hand off someone with about 8 lipos. He has been using his own charger and not the stock chargers. He gave me two stock chargers still in packaging.

I charger all 8 lipos up with both of the charger. I then fly with the heli just doing basic hovering. It only flown for a minute then the battery drop to 3.5v. I tested by charging it again and flying it again, same result.

I got deviationtx(v2.1) and running the tx at 10mw for the model.

What you all think it is? Should i buy new lipos?
quacka is offline Find More Posts by quacka
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 04, 2013, 09:43 PM
Registered User
j35u5fr34k's Avatar
United States, MI, East Tawas
Joined Aug 2011
120 Posts
How are you checking the voltage? Does the heli still feel strong or weak after a minute is up?
j35u5fr34k is offline Find More Posts by j35u5fr34k
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 04, 2013, 10:22 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2010
1,284 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by quacka View Post
I just got the mini cp second hand off someone with about 8 lipos. He has been using his own charger and not the stock chargers. He gave me two stock chargers still in packaging.

I charger all 8 lipos up with both of the charger. I then fly with the heli just doing basic hovering. It only flown for a minute then the battery drop to 3.5v. I tested by charging it again and flying it again, same result.

I got deviationtx(v2.1) and running the tx at 10mw for the model.

What you all think it is? Should i buy new lipos?
if telemetry is on try turning it off.
if all the batteries have the same run time you may need to re solder the battery leads to the main board. they are notorious for breaking after awhile.
pmerritt is offline Find More Posts by pmerritt
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 04, 2013, 11:11 PM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2008
63 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by j35u5fr34k View Post
How are you checking the voltage? Does the heli still feel strong or weak after a minute is up?
On the telemetry. At about 3.5v, the heli is weak. Can't even hover at 0% throttle, I have to go to about 30% for it to hover.
quacka is offline Find More Posts by quacka
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 04, 2013, 11:24 PM
Deviant
sbstnp's Avatar
Joined Jul 2012
1,190 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by quacka View Post
On the telemetry. At about 3.5v, the heli is weak. Can't even hover at 0% throttle, I have to go to about 30% for it to hover.
I think you meant something else, because obviously you can't hover at 0% throttle or 0% pitch.
sbstnp is online now Find More Posts by sbstnp
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 05, 2013, 05:12 PM
Registered User
Schiksie's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Weurt
Joined Sep 2012
382 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalGolem View Post
There might be something wrong with your installation. I used the WOW kit with my stock Mini CP main gear and the difference is startling compared to the brushed motor. No bogging at all. Battery run times on mine very close to those of the brushed motor. Headspeed is faster. No modifications necessary to install the motor and set the mesh, though things are REALLY squeezed in there.

The one annoying deficiency it brings to the fore is the underpowered tail motor. I can blow the tail out at will during pitch pumps. This is with a new tail motor too. I have no interest in using the Genius main gear though - I need as much headspeed as I can get.
Not much to install wrong since it fairly simple to install. I put back the Genius motor in in the Mini now. I have to fix the bad screwhole in the motor anyway so will try the kit later in the Super CP and see how that goes .
Schiksie is offline Find More Posts by Schiksie
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2013, 01:24 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2008
63 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmerritt View Post
if telemetry is on try turning it off.
if all the batteries have the same run time you may need to re solder the battery leads to the main board. they are notorious for breaking after awhile.
I have tried re-solder the battery cable. Seems a little better i think.

I checked every battery and label how long each one run.

The 240mah strandard gives me 1:20min flight time. The nano-tech 300mah gives me around 2:00minutes flight time.

I have no idea how to turn the telemetry off on the deviationtx firmware. I read somewhere it doesn't make a difference because the heli would still send this information to the tx. The tx would just ignore it. I am not sure if this information is true or not but I cannot test it.
quacka is offline Find More Posts by quacka
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2013, 02:00 AM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2010
1,284 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by quacka View Post
I have tried re-solder the battery cable. Seems a little better i think.

I checked every battery and label how long each one run.

The 240mah strandard gives me 1:20min flight time. The nano-tech 300mah gives me around 2:00minutes flight time.

I have no idea how to turn the telemetry off on the deviationtx firmware. I read somewhere it doesn't make a difference because the heli would still send this information to the tx. The tx would just ignore it. I am not sure if this information is true or not but I cannot test it.
well, i'm running the even hungrier hp05 and i get more run time than you.....something isn't right.
pmerritt is offline Find More Posts by pmerritt
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2013, 05:17 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2008
63 Posts
How long should I be getting? Thinking of getting some new lipos to see if it makes a difference.
quacka is offline Find More Posts by quacka
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anybody use two packs for speed 400 twins? Daniel English Electric Plane Talk 69 Feb 26, 2014 05:49 PM
Discussion NiCad Disposal GaryK Batteries and Chargers 28 Jan 16, 2014 02:16 PM
Which sensorless SC will work the best for an F7LMR and 10 cells? GregG Electric Plane Talk 6 Nov 18, 2013 09:21 PM
ARF's Cheaper Than Built-Up's Models E-Challenged Electric Plane Talk 42 Aug 01, 2013 11:25 AM
x250...not fair!! tnsfrk Electric Plane Talk 28 Jan 08, 2012 10:30 AM