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Old Apr 21, 2012, 09:40 PM
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Vancouver, WA
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Originally Posted by Longhorne View Post
In any event I just heard back from MA and they would be happy if I added the outlines as a second sheet to the plan. It'll be done by morning.

Paul
That would be great! I didn't realize until this afternoon that it did not have the drawings for the parts. So who is doing the kit? Or has that been arranged yet?
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 10:20 PM
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Moab, Utah, USA
Joined Apr 2003
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Paul,

I didn't think this was some conspiracy to sell kits. (although I do wonder about Charlie some times )

Anyway, thank you for your cooperation in this matter. My set of plans is on order.

Oh, and if they show up without any parts outlines, I do have connections in Sonoma County if you know what I mean.

Larry
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 10:21 AM
Where'd it go? Uh Oh!
Russia, Kamchatka Krai, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky
Joined Nov 2004
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Paul,

This is agreat looking airplane you've designed, and it apparently flies as well as it looks. I've been waiting for a "doable" Goose design for a while now. By "doable", I mean doable by me with my limited skills and something that would be practical (reasonable size) and a good flyer as well.

I went to the AMA site to search for the Goose plan. It's available for $12.00 as their plan number 1063 and seems to be a good price. I may be looking in the wrong area of the site, but it appears that plans can't be ordered online, but must be ordered by mail. Is this right (I've never ordered an AMA plans set before)?

I then went to manzanolaser.com and found their Goose kit under "Magazine Parts" as suggested by jonquinn. Manzano describes their "magazine Parts" thus: "These are only the laser cut wood parts. No plans. No Plastic. No Foam. No Wire." The price of the "Paul Kohlmann Grumman Goose "magazine parts" is $133.95, which seems a little steep to me, but I've never ordered a laser cut kit before, so I may be out of touch on this one.

I then went to the Park Flyer Plastics site and found a CW-24 Goose cowl for $7.00 each. This cowl is described as having a diameter of "5/78 in." (I assume they meant 5-7/8 in.), a length of 2-1/2 in. and an air inlet opening of 4-3/8 inches. Is the the correct cowl to use?

Parkflyer also lists a 4-1/2 inch diameter 9 cylinder Wasp radial face for $3.00 under their "Radial Fronts" engine section. They also offer a 5-7/8 inch diameter version of the Wasp, but I think that may be too large for the cowl. Any thoughts on a dummy engine front?

With all the foregoing said, I'm HOOKED! Back in the 1970's, I worked a lot in the Puerto Rico/U.S. Virgin Islands area and had many flights on Gooses operated by Antilles Airboats airline which was based out of Charlotte Amalie, St.Thomas, USVI. I'll be ordering the plans from AMA and will bite the bullet and order the "magazine parts" from Manzano.

Cheers,
Grog
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:10 PM
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USA, PA, Westmoreland Co.
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if you're an AMA member, the plans are a little less than $12, but then you do get if for shipping, something like $6. for that much I hope they are rolled in a tube - we'll see.
I've bought plans at the AMA museum before, but never on line, so not sure if they come rolled.

http://www.modelaviation.com/goosemember

if not then this link
http://www.modelaviation.com/goosenonmember
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:06 PM
Where'd it go? Uh Oh!
Russia, Kamchatka Krai, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky
Joined Nov 2004
539 Posts
jonquinn,

Thanks a lot for the link to order the Goose plans online. It seems that this option is only open to members since in the first window they ask for your AMA number. Because I'm a member, I went ahead and ordered the plans. How did I miss this option when I went online to the AMA plans service?

Cheers,
Grog
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:10 PM
Where'd it go? Uh Oh!
Russia, Kamchatka Krai, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky
Joined Nov 2004
539 Posts
AMA plans shipping

Jonquinn,

I forgot to add in the post above that I'll let you know how the plans are shipped (rolled, in a tube etc.). As I recall when I ordered some Model Airplane News Plans a long time ago (50 years) they were folded and mailed in a "plain brown envelope".

Grog
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:18 PM
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St. Martin's Avatar
Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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Paul, thats great! My experience with float flying: Keep some power on landings. Fly her down to the water. You'll get used to just how much power is needed.

Fuzz
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:57 PM
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United States, CA, Palmdale
Joined Nov 2007
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Guys,

I got a chance to put a battery through Paul's Goose this morning at our clubs float fly. In short, it is a FANTASTIC flyer! Very little effort to take off, and greasy smooth landings are easy with just a touch of power. The 370 motors don't even break a sweat, I never used more than 1/2 power, even for takeoff.

I'll have one of these in my hangar soon. Awesome model!

Red
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 03:20 PM
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Moab, Utah, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhorne View Post
This Goose is flying very well on two 1360kV 370's. Plenty of power and nice, long flights on a 3S 2200mAh.
What propeller are you using and do you know the wot current and power level of the 370 motor? It would be interesting to know your power loading in watts/lb.
Thanks,
Larry
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 04:02 PM
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Sonoma County CA!
Joined Jul 2007
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Let me tell you guys about Alien_Tech: he flew that Goose until it was done wore out! I got to fly it yesterday, though, so I got my fix.

Hi Grog! Yeah, the arrangement is a little convoluted as the AMA doesn't have a lasercutting operation of their own. It makes sense for them to farm out the job, and I'm very happy that Charlie got this one as Manzano's work is first rate. Alien_Tech cut the kit for the plane that was shown in the MA article and Charlie cut the beta kit that is seen being framed here in this build thread.

As for the cowls, you'll need two CW 4-A's. These are called out by part number in the article and on the plan, and the link is here: http://parkflyerplastics.com/cart/in...roducts_id=478
These are not the same as the larger Goose cowl that you mentioned. The link gives you the p/n for the 9cyl radial, too.

I'm envious of your Goose experience! I talked to several guys at the pond today who had gotten right seat time, water operations, hairy takeoffs, etc. All stories told with great big reminiscent smiles.

Jonquinn--I didn't realize that the member plan price was discounted. Nice!

Paul
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 04:21 PM
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Heya Fuzz--yep, I'm learning that as you can see from the videos. The nice flare that would be ok for wheels results in a little bounce but fying right down to the surface is the hot ticket.

Hi Larry--luckily I work alot of hours in a secure facility.

As for props, the guys were laughing at me at the pond today for doing a dopey thing. Initially I tested 8x3.8's and 8x6's on the 370's. The 8x6 was cutting it a little close for my ESC's and put out ~325W combined IIRC. The pair of 8x3.8's consumed ~300W. In the end I decided to go with the 8x6's as I realized that I wouldn't need full power for a bird with 400sq inches of wing and a weight of 37oz completely finished. That comes out to ~145W/lb.

Now for the dopey part: after flying the Goose for several weeks I brought her in for some work and to my surprise I had an 8x.8 on one motor and an 8x6P on the other. You'd think that she would yaw like crazy as the power goes up but she didn't require any odd trim. In fact, she's been flying so well that I haven't gotten around to correcting my mistake!

Paul
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 05:42 PM
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Moab, Utah, USA
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145 watts per pound! Holy power loading, Batman. It's no wonder that Red never got above half throttle. I would think that a good power loading for this type of plane would be around 60 watts per pound. That should give it enough thrust to overcome the drag of the water on take off and to do some mild aerobatics once it is flying.

Anyway, I appreciate the info. Now I can start planning ahead for the build. Got a couple of other projects to finish first, but I'll get there. The more I look at your photos of this airplane, the more I want to build it. Great job of designing and building, Paul.

Larry
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 05:49 PM
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USA, PA, Westmoreland Co.
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I ordered my plan yesterday, but no short kit yet. I've got lots of stuff to build, but most of all I'm lacking a nice pond to fly from. Maybe I need to take some RC on fishing trips then? Its been a while since we had the boat out (just a nice small bass type boat but aluminum hull). There is one or two larger sized lakes I can get too fairly quickly. For times when the fish are not biting.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 08:12 PM
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Shreveport Louisiana
Joined Dec 2006
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First off, Wonderful Kit. Beautiful choice in colors and excellent flying. As far as wood kits are concerned, I think this is as good as it gets for the size. Very clean and I just love...LOVE the Goose. I have been lurking since I found this thread the same day I lead to Warhead_71s' thread.

So I have a question. Is there a way to get the digital plans for laser cutting? I didn't see it as an option from MA and $133 is a little inflated for an incomplete kit. I have a trophy shop that charges me $1 a board of balsa to cut and I would really like to utilize that option if at all possible.

Again, excellent work sir and a beautiful work of art.

Orion
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 10:59 PM
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Australia, WA, Ellenbrook
Joined Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Pax View Post

So I have a question. Is there a way to get the digital plans for laser cutting? I didn't see it as an option from MA and $133 is a little inflated for an incomplete kit.

Orion
Mate, the quality of Charlies cut kits is first rate, definately money well spent i feel!

Cheers
Craig
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